Notices by Jimmy (patris@poa.st)
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@Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay I understand what your saying. People will ruin anything.
I will humbly submit that it is almost always a mistake to pit obedience to tradition against obedience to God. Jesus did it that one famous time because they were following traditions contrary to the command of God. What they were doing was bad because it violated God's law, not because it was a tradition of men. In a Christian culture, every tradition of men should align and overlap with the law of God. Obviously, we've never lived in one that good. But many traditions that come to us are directly from the apostles, and we would be retarded to forsake them because of that one exchange with the pharisees. On the other hand, those were Christ's words, and they were recorded for us.
So we have these arguments.
I think it boils down to tribalism (which is a good impulse I believe). People trust their own people. If your people, whom you trust, say "catholics follow the tradition of men instead of God's law" then you tend to believe them. I know I did for a long time.
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@Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay On the contrary, I contend that this impulse to strip down and straighten out the Christian church is unnecessary and more likely than not will result in worse error. It always does. 100% of what is wrong with the church today is novelty introduced with various efforts to "fix" something or other over the years.
We, as men of one particular place and time, do not have anywhere near the skill, experience, knowledge, sanctification, etc. to improve on what has been passed down to us by our betters. Furthermore, the very fathers of church: the apostles who touched Christ's earthly body and sat under his own teaching--all of it, not just what got written down--warn and entreat us in their epistles to "hold fast," "don't forsake," etc. Over and over.
So choose a denomination or tradition that suits you (I suggest choosing based on ethnicity), go find the most serious, unspoiled, striving congregation within that tradition--the one fighting hardest against modernity--and submit yourself to that rule of life energetically.
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@James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay The 1928 bcp has a lot going for it. The marriage service was starting to get cucked though. I guess it was published right as the Rollercoaster tipped over the top of the steep hill, but before it picked up any speed. The lectionary in the 28 is solid gold though. If you just read the scripture in the list for morning and evening prayer for the whole year, I guarantee that you will feel like a new man. And the coverdale psalms? Reciting them twice a day for a year will stave off the filth like an iodine pill in a fallout zone. I suspect singing them every day for very long might result in translation into heaven.
I swear if I could get everybody I see arguing about the church on the internet to sing the psalms in congregation, the world would change.
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@James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Thinking "out of the deep have I called into thee oh Lord--Lord hear my voice" VS saying it privately VS singing it with a hundred other people....
This is what the judge dread guy means when he says that Christianity lost its memetic power.
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@James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay I believe that the relegation of singing to professionals in the US was as big a blow to saving souls as anything else the devil pulled off in the twentieth century.
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@JohnYoungE @James_Dixon @Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Yes!
Step 2 for us: making marriages within and between these groups, and figuring out a way to overcome/settle/eliminate the denominational differences. We have way more in common with each other than we do with the converged threads within our own traditions.
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@James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Now that I'm up on top of the soap box, let me do one more:
I frequently find myself arguing on the internet the cousin that faithful and fruitful old-type Christian congregations still exist in the US. Where the kingdom of God is preached and not the enlightenment. And the teenage boys are masculine, abs the v teenage girls are feminine, and the young women are nursing babies in the service and the fathers make the children behave and take care of the church business. Where people don't get divorced and worship is reverent and joyous.
And they exist in most, of not all , traditions: roman catholic, orthodox, Presbyterian, Lutheran, Anglican, at least. I'm not saying they are all equally correct about the right way to be Christian, I'm just saying they exist. And I have a hard time convincing people of this fact, because they are so rare that many have never seen one.
You know one thing all the ones I've seen have in common? Robust, vibrant congregational singing. Every single one. Because they are full of professional musicians? No. Because they value corporate worship, so they work at it. Without getting paid. (audible gasp)
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@judgedread @Escoffier 100% there are powerful people having this conversation right now. But can they? Seems like a powerful dollar was one of the foundation stones of the high times. I think they have lost control of the dollar. They can put the leash back on the negro and the tranny, but can they disempower the HR director, regulator, and family court Judge? Can they get the Saudis back on the reservation?
Jimmy
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Jimmy
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