Conversation

Notices

1. Andrew (Television Executive) (ajroach42@retro.social)'s status on Monday, 16-Jan-2023 01:47:18 JST Andrew (Television Executive)

   The Small Thinks Manifesto

   What are small things?

   Small things are art, media, technology, and culture created by People who are treated fairly, for people who are treated fairly, shared freely and sustainably. There are no corporate overlords, no gatekeepers, no Web Scale Technologies, and no ways to get rich.

   Why are small things?

   Because, in a world where Creation and Communication are heavily commercialized, the act of Creating a Thing or building a community that doesn’t enrich our corporate overlords is a radical act.

   https://ajroach42.com/the-small-things-manifesto/

   #small #smallthings #smallpunk #SmallWeb #smallmedia

   • Andrew (Television Executive) (ajroach42@retro.social)'s status on Monday, 16-Jan-2023 01:47:10 JST Andrew (Television Executive)

     in reply to

     • Adrian Cochrane
     • Bill Seitz

     @billseitz It's a tricky thing! Because there isn't much DIY media out there.

     Like, my favorite youtubers are CC-BY or CC-BY-SA, but there's no good way to Discover that kind of thing.

     All my media (https://vod.newellijay.tv https://expeditionsasquatch.org
     https://intergalactic.computer
     etc.) is CC-BY or CC-BY-SA (with the exception of some of the live music, which I have to NC-ND because I don't own the music, and the archives which are mostly Public Domain.

     My pal @alcinnz keeps a running list of DRM free media on his website, of course not everything that is distributed DRM free is also distributed under an open license, but it's a good jumping off point: https://adrian.geek.nz/movies.html

     Part of the reason I put the effort in to DIY Media is that I fully expect it to be a force amplifier. Making CC-BY-SA media actively encourages the creation of more CC-BY-SA media.

     Adrian Cochrane repeated this.
   • Bill Seitz (billseitz@toolsforthought.rocks)'s status on Monday, 16-Jan-2023 01:47:15 JST Bill Seitz

     in reply to

     @ajroach42 the tweet said "I feel like, if you want to be a non-factory Maker, you need to be a non-factory Consumer." and is part of a longer thread

     Adrian Cochrane repeated this.
   • Andrew (Television Executive) (ajroach42@retro.social)'s status on Monday, 16-Jan-2023 01:47:16 JST Andrew (Television Executive)

     in reply to

     • Bill Seitz

     @billseitz I'm not sure if maybe you meant to send some context, or if you really did just send me a Twitter link. Either way, I won't be clicking a link to Twitter from someone I don't know without explanation. Hope you can understand.

   • Bill Seitz (billseitz@toolsforthought.rocks)'s status on Monday, 16-Jan-2023 01:47:17 JST Bill Seitz

     in reply to

     @ajroach42 https://twitter.com/BillSeitz/status/1550115241429635073?t=L98km8b2hoQqSJoL-Y6Dmw&s=19

   • Aral Balkan (aral@mastodon.ar.al)'s status on Monday, 16-Jan-2023 02:04:15 JST Aral Balkan

     in reply to

     • Adrian Cochrane
     • smallcircles (Humanity Now 🕊)
     • Bill Seitz

     @smallcircles My criteria for the NC And SA bits: if my work is non-commercial, work based on it should be also (otherwise, if someone else is going to make money off of it, I should be compensated also we can fund our work at our not-for-profit with it). If I share my work freely, works based on it should be shared freely also (so they are not enclosed).

     @ajroach42 @billseitz @alcinnz

     Adrian Cochrane repeated this.
   • smallcircles (Humanity Now 🕊) (smallcircles@social.coop)'s status on Monday, 16-Jan-2023 02:04:19 JST smallcircles (Humanity Now 🕊)

     in reply to

     • Adrian Cochrane
     • Aral Balkan
     • Bill Seitz

     @ajroach42 @billseitz @alcinnz

     I noticed that @aral on his personal site https://ar.al uses CC-BY-NC-SA for all post content, which is also an interesting choice.

     At various times I was in doubt whether to choose that too, or go with CC-BY-SA for personal stuff. I've yet to find a good summary of considerations as guidance to help make this choice.

     Adrian Cochrane repeated this.
   • Andrew (Television Executive) (ajroach42@retro.social)'s status on Monday, 16-Jan-2023 02:25:23 JST Andrew (Television Executive)

     in reply to

     • Adrian Cochrane
     • Aral Balkan
     • smallcircles (Humanity Now 🕊)
     • Bill Seitz

     @smallcircles @billseitz @alcinnz @aral

     I personally hate "NC", it's vague and in some cases can place restrictions on re-use that would otherwise be allowed under Fair Use (but using them in those ways would then violate the CC license agreement, revoking the rest of the terms and leaving you only with what is allowed under Fair Use. )

     I avoid NC whenever I can.

     SA is good enough for me to be certain that Disney will not profit off of something I've created without returning their new product to the commons, which is all I really care about.

   • Andrew (Television Executive) (ajroach42@retro.social)'s status on Monday, 16-Jan-2023 02:33:21 JST Andrew (Television Executive)

     in reply to

     • Adrian Cochrane
     • Aral Balkan
     • smallcircles (Humanity Now 🕊)
     • Bill Seitz

     @aral @smallcircles @billseitz @alcinnz And I think that argument makes sense, and I won't argue against it.

     But it does prohibit some use cases which I do not want to prohibit (such as remixing something I've created and sharing it on a site that runs advertisements or sells merch. I'm generally opposed to ads, but I understand the need for revenue to ktlo.

     Or re-sharing something I've created in a youtube video. Youtube is running ads against it, that means someone is making money, and that violates the license. I would prefer people not use youtube as a video sharing platform, but I recognize that it (and facebook and instagram) are basically the only options many people see, and I don't want to discourage participation. )

     Our lines our different, and as a result, my work and yours can't appear in all the same places.

     Adrian Cochrane repeated this.
   • Andrew (Television Executive) (ajroach42@retro.social)'s status on Monday, 16-Jan-2023 02:36:16 JST Andrew (Television Executive)

     in reply to

     • Adrian Cochrane
     • Aral Balkan
     • smallcircles (Humanity Now 🕊)
     • Bill Seitz

     @smallcircles @aral @billseitz @alcinnz Ultimately, I'm for the extension of the commons.

     If the person who re-uses something I've created under an SA license follows the terms of the license, it will be linked back to the original which is free. If they're charging for it, they're either 1) not making any money or 2) doing something transformative which makes it worth paying for in a way that mine wasn't.

     And regardless, once you or I are in possession of the thing, we can then liberate it, as per the terms of the license.

     I don't see the need for NC in my work. YMMV.

   • smallcircles (Humanity Now 🕊) (smallcircles@social.coop)'s status on Monday, 16-Jan-2023 02:36:17 JST smallcircles (Humanity Now 🕊)

     in reply to

     • Adrian Cochrane
     • Aral Balkan
     • Bill Seitz

     @aral @ajroach42 @billseitz @alcinnz

     That is also a good argument. The legal status of the license in court is less relevent here, but by using it you clearly state your intent wrt monetization.

     And Fair Use mentioned by Andrew is also dubious in many cases. I think of e.g. Google Books and Github CoPilot, for instance.

     Hmm, 🤔

     Adrian Cochrane repeated this.
   • D. Moonfire (dmoonfire@octodon.social)'s status on Monday, 16-Jan-2023 02:36:34 JST D. Moonfire

     in reply to

     • Adrian Cochrane
     • Aral Balkan
     • smallcircles (Humanity Now 🕊)
     • Bill Seitz

     @ajroach42 @aral @smallcircles @billseitz @alcinnz One can always ask. CC licenses don't prevent exceptions made with the creator. Not having the NC means you don't have to though.

     Adrian Cochrane repeated this.
   • Andrew (Television Executive) (ajroach42@retro.social)'s status on Monday, 16-Jan-2023 02:37:55 JST Andrew (Television Executive)

     in reply to

     • Adrian Cochrane
     • Aral Balkan
     • smallcircles (Humanity Now 🕊)
     • Bill Seitz
     • D. Moonfire

     @dmoonfire @aral @smallcircles @billseitz @alcinnz

     Certainly, but that puts us in further tricky water!

     If you make an exception for Me to use a thing commercially, and my work is otherwise CC-BY-SA, the people who remix my work can now be in violation of your NC clause.

     I prefer to avoid the potential confusion, and make my stance explicit.

     Adrian Cochrane repeated this.
   • Adrian Cochrane (alcinnz@floss.social)'s status on Monday, 16-Jan-2023 02:43:07 JST Adrian Cochrane

     in reply to

     • Bill Seitz

     @ajroach42 @billseitz I'll state that my current favourites (even including DRM'd entertainment) are:
     * the relatable space adventure Wolf359,
     * The Red Panda Adventures for cheesy superheroics,
     * ensamble fantasy comedy Magus Elgar,
     * british horror The Magnus Archives,
     * & end-of-the-world anthology Zero Hours.

     Outside audio I love The Man From Earth, almost all the Blender Open Movies, and Pepper & Carrot!

   • nilesh (nilesh@fosstodon.org)'s status on Monday, 16-Jan-2023 02:43:37 JST nilesh

     in reply to

     • Adrian Cochrane
     • Aral Balkan
     • smallcircles (Humanity Now 🕊)
     • Bill Seitz

     @aral @smallcircles @ajroach42 @billseitz @alcinnz

     Let's bring CC-BY-NC-SA-NO_AI-NO_CRYPTO.

     Adrian Cochrane repeated this.
   • Andrew (Television Executive) (ajroach42@retro.social)'s status on Monday, 16-Jan-2023 02:44:49 JST Andrew (Television Executive)

     in reply to

     • Adrian Cochrane
     • Aral Balkan
     • nilesh
     • smallcircles (Humanity Now 🕊)
     • Bill Seitz

     @nilesh @aral @smallcircles @billseitz @alcinnz I'm a fan of the idea of a no cyrptoshit clause.

   • D. Moonfire (dmoonfire@octodon.social)'s status on Monday, 16-Jan-2023 02:45:54 JST D. Moonfire

     in reply to

     • Adrian Cochrane
     • Aral Balkan
     • smallcircles (Humanity Now 🕊)
     • Bill Seitz

     @ajroach42 @aral @smallcircles @billseitz @alcinnz Unfortunately, there is no license alternative for NC that says not allowed if you (or your parent entities) gross more than a 250k USD a year. I want small creators not large but large ones have the lawyers to abuse rules and game systems.

     But that is why NC is an option. It works for some and not others. It also drastically limits, as you said, remixers and ad supported sites.

     Adrian Cochrane repeated this.
   • Andrew (Television Executive) (ajroach42@retro.social)'s status on Monday, 16-Jan-2023 02:46:30 JST Andrew (Television Executive)

     in reply to

     • Adrian Cochrane
     • Aral Balkan
     • smallcircles (Humanity Now 🕊)
     • Bill Seitz
     • D. Moonfire

     @dmoonfire @aral @smallcircles @billseitz @alcinnz

     Right.

     As I said elsewhere, I understand why people choose the license that they choose, and I'm not trying to convince anyone to change their mind.

     But that license is overly prohibitive for my use cases and the ones I'd like to encourage, and I suspect that SA is probably enough of a threat to prevent the megacorps from exploiting my work anyway.

     I may be wrong! But I'm more interested in making my work available for re-use than I am in preventing it from being exploited commercially. As I said elsewhere in the thread:

     > If the person who re-uses something I've created under an SA license follows the terms of the license, it will be linked back to the original which is free. If they're charging for it, they're either 1) not making any money or 2) doing something transformative which makes it worth paying for in a way that mine wasn't.

     > And regardless, once you or I are in possession of the thing, we can then liberate it, as per the terms of the license.

     > I don't see the need for NC in my work. YMMV.

     And I believe in this very strongly! But I don't make my money on my creative work, so my weights are different than someone who does.

   • n8chz ⒶⒺ (n8chz@queer.party)'s status on Monday, 16-Jan-2023 02:49:10 JST n8chz ⒶⒺ

     in reply to

     • Adrian Cochrane
     • Bill Seitz

     @ajroach42 @billseitz @alcinnz Image search as implemented by Google and Microsoft features filtering by license. YouTube does not, most likely because YouTube is imitating TikTok, for which content monetization opportunities have become quite a magnet. Users looking for a profit platform can be exploited in ways users looking for a library are not.

   • Adrian Cochrane (alcinnz@floss.social)'s status on Monday, 16-Jan-2023 04:04:26 JST Adrian Cochrane

     in reply to

     • Bill Seitz

     @ajroach42 @billseitz Also I'm now following Cartoon Community Hub, and several of the shows in their recent pitchnight. Nothing to recommend yet, but lots of promise!

   • Lien Rag (lienrag@mastodon.tedomum.net)'s status on Monday, 16-Jan-2023 05:01:39 JST Lien Rag

     in reply to

     • Adrian Cochrane
     • Aral Balkan
     • Christine Lemmer-Webber
     • smallcircles (Humanity Now 🕊)
     • Bill Seitz

     @smallcircles

     @cwebber wrote a good post about "NC doesn't compose".
     But there are some assumptions in it that are not necessarily universal.
     And basically, if you're certain that you don't want your work to be "composed", the NC works well.

     @ajroach42 @billseitz @alcinnz @aral

   • smallcircles (Humanity Now 🕊) (smallcircles@social.coop)'s status on Monday, 16-Jan-2023 05:01:40 JST smallcircles (Humanity Now 🕊)

     in reply to

     • Adrian Cochrane
     • Aral Balkan
     • Bill Seitz

     @ajroach42 @billseitz @alcinnz @aral

     Good point, thanks!

     Adrian Cochrane repeated this.
   • Andrew (Television Executive) (ajroach42@retro.social)'s status on Monday, 16-Jan-2023 08:38:11 JST Andrew (Television Executive)

     in reply to

     • Adrian Cochrane
     • Bill Seitz
     • n8chz ⒶⒺ

     @n8chz @billseitz @alcinnz I tend to use yt-dlp, but the fact that youtube doesn't enable this kind of thing by default is pretty strong evidence that google hates the commons. .

   • n8chz ⒶⒺ (n8chz@queer.party)'s status on Monday, 16-Jan-2023 08:38:12 JST n8chz ⒶⒺ

     in reply to

     • Adrian Cochrane
     • Bill Seitz

     @ajroach42 @billseitz @alcinnz Oh, OK, I wasn't aware of their two option license filter. The download button is called #NewPipe.

     Adrian Cochrane repeated this.
   • Andrew (Television Executive) (ajroach42@retro.social)'s status on Monday, 16-Jan-2023 08:38:13 JST Andrew (Television Executive)

     in reply to

     • Adrian Cochrane
     • Bill Seitz
     • n8chz ⒶⒺ

     @n8chz @billseitz @alcinnz

     1) what? You're saying that Youtube's decade+ long lack of a proper license filter is a result of youtube imitating a program that didn't exist when the decision to exclude that filter was made. That's nonsense.

     2) Youtube *does* have a filter by license, it's just useless. Your option is "CC-BY" or "Youtube Standard license" and that's it.

     And CC-BY material still doesn't come with a DOWNLOAD button, so what's the point?

     It's not a good license filter, but it does exist.

   • Adrian Cochrane (alcinnz@floss.social)'s status on Monday, 16-Jan-2023 08:42:11 JST Adrian Cochrane

     in reply to

     • Bill Seitz
     • n8chz ⒶⒺ

     @ajroach42 @n8chz @billseitz Free videohosting and promotion makes YouTube a very compelling service to many a filmmaker (some of which I love!), but seems many forget you can do that yourself. I am!

     And yeah, there are legal arguments being made over whether YouTube is DRM. And Google's not stating their intentions, so given DRM is a legal construct masquerading as a technological one...