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1. Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks (washedoutgundampilot@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 20-Mar-2023 10:22:10 JST Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks

   • GabeLakmann

   Time for a contentious take w/ gun hobbyists:

   I think a lot of gun trainers are people trying desperately to complicate a fundamentally simple act because there’re only so many ways to make money after a career as a grunt, so they try to gussy it up into PHD-level kinesthetics. There’s plenty of value in having routine, muscle memory, and training out weaknesses, but they tend to stretch it out into a Rifle I/ Rifle II/ Rifle III/ Advanced Rifleman I/ Advanced Rifleman II….. course system because they have to fill those classes up with something.

   In reality, they’d be providing better value by hammering people on fitness and firing under pressure instead of “Rotary wing operations”, or “Convoy Protection I”. I wouldn’t be so hard on them if they just said “hey, it’s fun”, but they’ll really try to sell fat, out of shape guys on an $8,000, 2,000-round course and pretend it’s the best way to spend that money.
   
   RT: https://nicecrew.digital/objects/d094ccfd-3162-4294-a9f7-dc15003be725

   • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks (washedoutgundampilot@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 20-Mar-2023 10:25:19 JST Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks

     in reply to

     • GabeLakmann

     @GabeLakmann All this super regimented, wannabe-SOCOM slow is smooth, and smooth is fast shit mostly holds true for only for attackers when they have the initiative - IE cops on a midnight doorkicking - and less so for someone going up against a hardened target that can return volumes of fire.

     It’s like the whole industry got perverted by that attitude of GWOT air support faggotry. “We’re better armed, better trained, and we’re gonna go fuck them up! (while they lie in their beds, unarmed and asleep)”.

   • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks (washedoutgundampilot@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 20-Mar-2023 10:27:29 JST Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks

     in reply to

     • GabeLakmann

     @GabeLakmann I always thought it was funny how often ‘force on force’ training resulted in lean, adrenaline-soaked paintball kids BTFO’ing the well trained, fresh off a rifle course SWAT fats.

     When I was working at the range we’d sometimes get the invite to fill in and play with the guys, and about 70-80% of the time the cops would ask us to “be less aggressive” because the young dudes would just lay down fire + sprint to flank them, then chew them up as they hunkered down where they were.

     TBF they were often too chunky to use cover effectively, and they hated running, which, when you’re up against highly mobile dudes in their teens/twenties given a free ticket to pepper cops with simunitions……not gonna have a great time

     How is THAT for a controversial take?

   • GabeLakmann (gabelakmann@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Monday, 20-Mar-2023 10:27:39 JST GabeLakmann

     in reply to
     That's why the guys I'd want to train with stress fundamentals and break the fundamentals down instead of selling people an "operator experience" where they think they're John Wick.
     
     Robert Keller and Pat MacNamara are some of the ones I'd want to train with and he keeps shit simple. "John Mosby"/Mountain Guerilla is another one who is great about that kind of thing.
     Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks likes this.
   • Boina Roja Enthusiast Karl Dahl (karldahl@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 20-Mar-2023 10:27:42 JST Boina Roja Enthusiast Karl Dahl

     in reply to

     • GabeLakmann
     @WashedOutGundamPilot @GabeLakmann I am friendly with a professional trainer who has told me precisely this
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   • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks (washedoutgundampilot@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 20-Mar-2023 10:29:18 JST Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks

     in reply to

     • GabeLakmann

     @GabeLakmann There are enough realists out there, thankfully. Though the one lesson I seldom hear is “bring a shitload of ammo”. Mobility is cool and all, but between small units, ammo is the currency that buys it. Hard to flank and maneuver when each guy on the team is carrying 120 rds total

   • GabeLakmann (gabelakmann@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Monday, 20-Mar-2023 10:34:26 JST GabeLakmann

     in reply to
     SWAT guys are over rated. Sometimes Rangers and SF guys will go play airsoft/paintball and wipe the field though.
     
     That type of stuff is alright for small unit tactics but if you want a really good "force on force" experience then simunitions and a place like DARC is what you need.
   • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks (washedoutgundampilot@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 20-Mar-2023 10:34:26 JST Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks

     in reply to

     • GabeLakmann

     @GabeLakmann I can’t quite talk about our place but we DID have pretty sweet facilities, enough for people to make the journey to them. Had a couple buildings and a 2-story to fire from.

     A couple reservists and retirees came out here and there, the only ones that impressed me were rangers. No idea about SF, I tended to write it off as big talk unless someone seemed cool and confident. The guy talking about his SEAL experience probably washed out of BUDS, but the dude who looked like a skate shop cashier? Yeah, he’s probably deadly.

   • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks (washedoutgundampilot@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 20-Mar-2023 10:34:34 JST Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks

     in reply to

     • GabeLakmann

     @GabeLakmann Overall, given an even playing field, similar numbers, arms, etc. the team that’s willing to gamble, run, and shoot more wins about 80% of the time. A whole lot of gun lovers simply put near-zero levels of effort into the “mobility” portion of the equation, and everyone’s so fat they refuse to call each other out on it

   • Royper (royper@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 20-Mar-2023 10:34:43 JST Royper

     in reply to

     • GabeLakmann
     @WashedOutGundamPilot @GabeLakmann Kinda want that shotgun stock.
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   • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks (washedoutgundampilot@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 20-Mar-2023 10:36:59 JST Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks

     in reply to

     • GabeLakmann
     • Soyak

     @HWABAG @GabeLakmann Best SWAT guys tended to be the reservists, IME. Volunteers at least have some vested interest in it, even if it’s just to get a free MP5 out of the deal. For some reason the big city SWAT guys were always the fattest, slowest guys on the line. It’s a very distinct form of combat, and it’s bizarre how people tend to treat it like it’s universally applicable when few people have the stacked bodies for an entry when they hear a window shatter at 2 am

   • Soyak (hwabag@bae.st)'s status on Monday, 20-Mar-2023 10:37:00 JST Soyak

     in reply to

     • GabeLakmann
     @WashedOutGundamPilot @GabeLakmann lots of SWAT guys you see are local and do it part time, not exactly the best for the job but it works.
   • GabeLakmann (gabelakmann@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Monday, 20-Mar-2023 10:41:22 JST GabeLakmann

     in reply to
     Standard load out, as in loaded mags on your LBE/armor/plate carrier, for infantry units was 360 rounds which breaks down to 12 mags. Some of the SF guys carry less than that on their plate carriers and keep the rest in a backpack or something but that only really works for them because they're so good and accurate that they can accomplish more with less rounds than average line unit grunts.
     
     Those extra rounds come in handy if you have to break contact or something.
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   • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks (washedoutgundampilot@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 20-Mar-2023 10:41:22 JST Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks

     in reply to

     • GabeLakmann

     @GabeLakmann People always forget that loadout is determined by the mission. Early on the inserted guys didn’t take much ammo because they weren’t planning on a gun fight….that didn’t last too long once they found they couldn’t always escape without friction. I always thought it interesting that people point to the marines, army loadout during GWOT without really recognizing those guys were mounted up.

     It all comes down to the job you’re gonna do. For the appalachian rangers, moving around on foot in 2038? I can see packing lighter, since they’ll have the initiative to start an engagement, and they wouldn’t have the need for the same volumes of fire they’d need at 10 yds if they have a whole valley between them and their targets.

     Still…..I can’t quite figure out WTH these guys with the 3-mag rigs plan on doing. That’s like……1.5 minutes of contact if you have to rock and roll

   • synapsid (synapsid@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 20-Mar-2023 10:42:13 JST synapsid

     in reply to

     • GabeLakmann
     @WashedOutGundamPilot @GabeLakmann Once you can reliably operate your weapon, clear stoppages, get a good sight picture in a variety of stances, ect. the utility in learning more "advanced" shooting techniques is almost zero. Having good cardio and knowing how to effectively communicate and operate among a small fireteam/squad is way, way more important for the average dude.
     
     It's just cope from overweight dudes with too much money who don't want to put in the effort to learn the 'boring stuff'.
     
     Chances are if you're kicking doors down, you're going to die in short order, so it's much better to learn strategy and tactics to avoid that scenario being necessary in the first place.
     
     Can't remember where I saw it but I recall an interview with a fairly well read taliban dude that said the most important things for them was being a decent shot ~500m, knowing how do recon undetected, and communicating among your entire group in an effective, efficient, and secure method.
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   • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks (washedoutgundampilot@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 20-Mar-2023 10:43:30 JST Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks

     in reply to

     • synapsid
     • GabeLakmann

     @synapsid @GabeLakmann That frame of mind is important in america. I always laugh how people imagine the whole country looks like their own backyard. If you look out the window and see a 1,500-yd shot, it seems insane to have a 1x red dot. To the guy in the suburbs, that 1-8x optic sounds equally insane.

   • Soyak (hwabag@bae.st)'s status on Monday, 20-Mar-2023 10:44:14 JST Soyak

     in reply to

     • GabeLakmann
     @WashedOutGundamPilot @GabeLakmann None of these guys seem to be in their prime. LAPD SWAT btw, improvements can be made.
     C62C8B2D-B9AF-41D3-8C66-73FDC8069623.jpeg
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   • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks (washedoutgundampilot@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 20-Mar-2023 10:44:57 JST Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks

     in reply to

     • GabeLakmann
     • Soyak

     @HWABAG @GabeLakmann Behold, the very best triggers the FBI fields, the NAVY SEALS of law enforcement

   • Groomschild (groomschild@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 20-Mar-2023 10:45:47 JST Groomschild

     in reply to

     • synapsid
     • GabeLakmann
     @synapsid @WashedOutGundamPilot @GabeLakmann yeah it best to practice for situation where you can win and avoid situation in which you will lose no matter what
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   • synapsid (synapsid@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 20-Mar-2023 10:47:04 JST synapsid

     in reply to

     • Groomschild
     • GabeLakmann

     @Groomschild @WashedOutGundamPilot @GabeLakmann Overmatch is highly valued in military doctrine for a reason. If you find yourself in a ‘fair fight’, that’s a serious strategic/tactical blunder. If you find yourself in a lopsided fight, you’re gonna die nigga lmao

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   • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks (washedoutgundampilot@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 20-Mar-2023 10:49:07 JST Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks

     in reply to

     • Groomschild
     • synapsid
     • GabeLakmann

     @synapsid @Groomschild @GabeLakmann It’s just very silly how you have these courses that primarily sell to PD’s and LEOs selling their off days to civilians as if the prime consideration for the american rifleman is…..kicking the door down and clearing a trap house

     I think some are a little better, trying to put together a more well-rounded one, but until I hear someone say he’s slimming down and running to meet the minimum performance standards for a course I’m gonna assume they’re kinda gay and that $3,000-9,000 is probably better spent on ammo and a treadmill

   • GabeLakmann (gabelakmann@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Monday, 20-Mar-2023 10:50:25 JST GabeLakmann

     in reply to

     • Soyak
     She has a nice rifle at least haha.
     
     Geissele "FBI" model rail and some kind of LPVO although she is missing a mini red dot on top of the LPVO.
   • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks (washedoutgundampilot@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 20-Mar-2023 10:50:25 JST Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks

     in reply to

     • GabeLakmann
     • Soyak

     @GabeLakmann @HWABAG I don’t know if they’re still color coding them by rails, but for a time the OD ones mean they were the ‘active duty’ team, and black rails meant the regional HRT teams. Usually pretty standardized stuff.

     I really like that rail, sadly.

   • Groomschild (groomschild@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 20-Mar-2023 10:50:34 JST Groomschild

     in reply to

     • synapsid
     • GabeLakmann
     @synapsid @WashedOutGundamPilot @GabeLakmann yeah that's why tanks will always be useful because of their concentration of force. Sure you can make 8600 AKs out of a T-72 tank worth of steel but can you stuff even 100 infantry worth of a firepower in something the size of tank
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   • GabeLakmann (gabelakmann@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Monday, 20-Mar-2023 10:50:39 JST GabeLakmann

     in reply to

     • Groomschild
     • synapsid
     We generally tried to make sure it was close to 3:1 "Us vs Them" although exceptions were sometimes made and sometimes you find yourself in situations you didn't expect, but 3:1 or better was the general consensus back then and probably still is.
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   • Turdicus, of Christmas Time (turdicus@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 20-Mar-2023 10:53:47 JST Turdicus, of Christmas Time

     in reply to

     • GabeLakmann
     • Soyak

     @WashedOutGundamPilot @HWABAG @GabeLakmann Does swat mean anything anymore other the scary police twitch streamer send to each others houses

   • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks (washedoutgundampilot@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 20-Mar-2023 10:53:47 JST Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks

     in reply to

     • Turdicus, of Christmas Time
     • GabeLakmann
     • Soyak

     @Turdicus @HWABAG @GabeLakmann AFAIK they were the only ones who really ‘trained’ with long guns in our area. They’d come out to do quals, a few shoots in the house, then head home for a year. It’s just very weird that people treat them as a combat asset….they’re more like a specialized shell-cracker, used when you wanna break open a building and take out whatever’s inside. So much of what they do is build around that sole function, they aren’t rifleman in the traditional sense unless they’re a hobbyist.

     Which, there are plenty of in their ranks, so the completely inept swat guys at least fairly rare. Usually though they’re only 20-30% better than the average 2,000rd/yr shooter, give or take

   • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks (washedoutgundampilot@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 20-Mar-2023 10:55:31 JST Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks

     in reply to

     • GabeLakmann
     • Soyak

     @GabeLakmann @HWABAG Yeah, I just don’t like bill geissle or his faggot philly operation. TBH I can’t even remember the origin of my grudge anymore, I just remember disliking him.

     I’m surprised people hadn’t cracked the code on rails earlier though, seemed pretty obvious to do what he did but nobody did it until his were ‘rare’ and going for 2-3x online

   • GabeLakmann (gabelakmann@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Monday, 20-Mar-2023 10:55:32 JST GabeLakmann

     in reply to

     • Soyak
     The Mk8 is a better rail in my opinion. Geissele makes really great triggers and rails and if you wait until they run a sale (2-3x a year on memorial day, veterans day, and 4th of July I think) you can get them for a good price. The blems are great deals too.
     
     Before I sold everything I had a Mk8 M-Lok rail and the new Mk16 rail that is used on the new URGI. Both were great but if you don't mind a wider rail then the Mk8 is better.
   • Groomschild (groomschild@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 20-Mar-2023 10:56:25 JST Groomschild

     in reply to

     • synapsid
     • GabeLakmann
     @WashedOutGundamPilot @synapsid @GabeLakmann yeah I dont take any breach and clearer strategist seriously until they start talking about how to carry as much armor and grenades on you as possible
   • Groomschild (groomschild@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 20-Mar-2023 10:56:25 JST Groomschild

     in reply to

     • Groomschild
     • synapsid
     • GabeLakmann
     @WashedOutGundamPilot @synapsid @GabeLakmann Power armor for breaching and clearing would probably be some of the first serious uses for power armor because those battles don't last that long so the battery problem isnt that much of a issue as opposed to spending all day in a trench
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   • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks (washedoutgundampilot@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 20-Mar-2023 10:57:10 JST Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks

     in reply to

     • BroDrillard
     • GabeLakmann
     • Soyak

     @Bro-Drillard @GabeLakmann @HWABAG Probably a training carbine for the school, easier to put a cheater on top so guys can make their qualification, esp. w/o glasses

   • BroDrillard (bro-drillard@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 20-Mar-2023 10:57:11 JST BroDrillard

     in reply to

     • GabeLakmann
     • Soyak
     @GabeLakmann @WashedOutGundamPilot @HWABAG Why do you need a x6gorillion scope on an AR? It's not like she's going to reach out to 1500.
   • GabeLakmann (gabelakmann@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Monday, 20-Mar-2023 10:57:55 JST GabeLakmann

     in reply to

     • Soyak
     Was it when he charged like $30-$35 for D&H magazines that had a Geissele baseplate on them and were worth half that?
     
     He's done some stupid stuff after he got big and even though I think he makes great stuff I am also kinda glad that I got everything I ever needed from him before that crap which I sold during Covid.
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   • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks (washedoutgundampilot@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 20-Mar-2023 10:59:31 JST Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks

     in reply to

     • GabeLakmann
     • Soyak

     @GabeLakmann @HWABAG Yeah, IIRC there was an issue with the URGI run in the beginning too, where they were getting bent up in use and guys in the sandbox were finding their IR was off by like 100 MOA.

     Maybe it’s just the pricing? Maybe something to do with him being in the east coast or something too. Seems like those companies are always gay. Who knows, I was surfing gun forums as a kid so I can’t keep all these spats and grudges straight anymore.

   • brimshae - now 90% less rambling, like going on about that one time that this guy.... (brimshae@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 20-Mar-2023 10:59:46 JST brimshae - now 90% less rambling, like going on about that one time that this guy....

     in reply to

     • GabeLakmann
     @WashedOutGundamPilot @GabeLakmann How is this a contentious take? It's 100% accurate.
     
     There's nothing wrong with taking one of that tacticool classes as long as you realize it's just a big, expensive LARP.
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   • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks (washedoutgundampilot@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 20-Mar-2023 11:01:03 JST Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks

     in reply to

     • GabeLakmann
     • brimshae - now 90% less rambling, like going on about that one time that this guy....

     @brimshae @GabeLakmann I had a neighbor that was talking up one of these (at thunder ranch, maybe?) and trying to get me to go, pretty sure he was gonna buy a time share there or something. It’s just very griftery, and a whole lot of people make their bones by keeping up the illusion that shooting is a complex martial art that takes decades to master from your sensei

   • brimshae - now 90% less rambling, like going on about that one time that this guy.... (brimshae@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 20-Mar-2023 11:02:06 JST brimshae - now 90% less rambling, like going on about that one time that this guy....

     in reply to

     • GabeLakmann
     @WashedOutGundamPilot @GabeLakmann Only 120 rounds?
   • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks (washedoutgundampilot@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 20-Mar-2023 11:02:06 JST Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks

     in reply to

     • GabeLakmann
     • brimshae - now 90% less rambling, like going on about that one time that this guy....

     @brimshae @GabeLakmann That’s what I see in the faggy instagram stuff. Guys have these lightweight plate carriers (if they even carry plates) and there’re only 3 mags on the front + 1 in the gun. I assume that’s their ‘bump in the night’ setup, but I’ve seen it as a truck rig too

   • GabeLakmann (gabelakmann@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Monday, 20-Mar-2023 11:02:26 JST GabeLakmann

     in reply to

     • Soyak
     Oh yeah, that too. Someone was bending the rails to see what would happen and they did bend slightly but it wasn't from anything people would likely see in combat so it was overblown a bit.
     
     The Mk8 wouldn't have done that though. I wish they had just slimmed that design up slightly instead.
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   • GabeLakmann (gabelakmann@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Monday, 20-Mar-2023 11:03:12 JST GabeLakmann

     in reply to

     • brimshae - now 90% less rambling, like going on about that one time that this guy....
     Go look up pictures of SF guys and SEALS now, many of them only run 3-4 mags on their plate carrier and 1-2 on their belt.
   • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks (washedoutgundampilot@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 20-Mar-2023 11:03:12 JST Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks

     in reply to

     • GabeLakmann
     • brimshae - now 90% less rambling, like going on about that one time that this guy....

     @GabeLakmann @brimshae We’ll just have to remember we won’t have F-15’s and a UH60 on call should we ever hae to get jiggy with it

   • Groomschild (groomschild@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 20-Mar-2023 11:03:29 JST Groomschild

     in reply to

     • Groomschild
     • synapsid
     • GabeLakmann
     @WashedOutGundamPilot @synapsid @GabeLakmann youtu.be/4d2gBnUjI1E something like Jin Roh wolf brigade
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   • nugger (nugger@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 20-Mar-2023 11:10:26 JST nugger

     in reply to

     • Groomschild
     • synapsid
     • GabeLakmann
     @Groomschild @WashedOutGundamPilot @synapsid @GabeLakmann UMBILICAL CORD POWERED FROM A FUCKIN GAS GENERATOR OUT BACK
   • GabeLakmann (gabelakmann@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Monday, 20-Mar-2023 11:10:26 JST GabeLakmann

     in reply to

     • nugger
     • Groomschild
     • synapsid
     Why would you want to generate gas? Oy Vey!
   • Groomschild (groomschild@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 20-Mar-2023 11:10:26 JST Groomschild

     in reply to

     • nugger
     • synapsid
     • GabeLakmann
     @GabeLakmann @nugger @WashedOutGundamPilot @synapsid unironically gas is the ultimate solution to assaulting a building. just pump in some cyanide gas and come back a couple day later to clean up the bodies
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   • GabeLakmann (gabelakmann@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Monday, 20-Mar-2023 11:10:40 JST GabeLakmann

     in reply to

     • brimshae - now 90% less rambling, like going on about that one time that this guy....
     Might have some super duty technicals though.
     
     Just imagine "rolling coal" on THEM.
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   • GabeLakmann (gabelakmann@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Monday, 20-Mar-2023 11:12:28 JST GabeLakmann

     in reply to

     • BroDrillard
     • Soyak
     If you actually train then a 4x ACOG and a Aimpoint T2 on top will cover the effective range of the M4 and do just about anything you need it to do.
   • BroDrillard (bro-drillard@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 20-Mar-2023 11:12:29 JST BroDrillard

     in reply to

     • GabeLakmann
     • Soyak
     @GabeLakmann @WashedOutGundamPilot @HWABAG I like this setup, but I see your point.
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   • Soyak (hwabag@bae.st)'s status on Monday, 20-Mar-2023 11:12:34 JST Soyak

     in reply to

     • GabeLakmann
     @GabeLakmann @WashedOutGundamPilot Full length ar15s are fine as is.
   • GabeLakmann (gabelakmann@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Monday, 20-Mar-2023 11:12:34 JST GabeLakmann

     in reply to

     • Soyak
     14.5" with a suppressor is the sweet spot unless you have some weird application but then the 14.5 can do 80%-90% of that anyways.
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   • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks (washedoutgundampilot@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 20-Mar-2023 11:25:06 JST Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks

     in reply to

     • GabeLakmann
     • Soyak
     • brimshae - now 90% less rambling, like going on about that one time that this guy....

     @GabeLakmann @HWABAG @brimshae I’ve come to think of 5.11 as a fashion brand, above all else. I recall their early webgear being pretty stout, but those days are gone. I’d have to dig in my shit pile, I might still ahve something old to see if it’s made in the USA.

     I’d bet it’s chinese manufacture, and them moving to lower-denier stuff b/c faggots can’t thread the molle on HD gear

   • GabeLakmann (gabelakmann@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Monday, 20-Mar-2023 11:25:07 JST GabeLakmann

     in reply to

     • Soyak
     • brimshae - now 90% less rambling, like going on about that one time that this guy....
     That 5.11 crap is so overrated and I think nearly all of it is made in china. All the stuff I've seen and felt first hand felt cheap.
   • Soyak (hwabag@bae.st)'s status on Monday, 20-Mar-2023 11:25:08 JST Soyak

     in reply to

     • GabeLakmann
     • brimshae - now 90% less rambling, like going on about that one time that this guy....
     @WashedOutGundamPilot @GabeLakmann @brimshae lol you also see the 5.11 TacTec everywhere even though its horrible.
   • GabeLakmann (gabelakmann@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Monday, 20-Mar-2023 11:27:16 JST GabeLakmann

     in reply to

     • Soyak
     • brimshae - now 90% less rambling, like going on about that one time that this guy....
     Blackhawk gear kinda went the same way. Some of their early stuff is alright (some of it is poorly designed though but then maybe that's because hindsight is always 20/20 as they say) and rugged but their newer stuff isn't so hot and they don't have any innovative designs either.
     Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks likes this.
   • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks (washedoutgundampilot@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 20-Mar-2023 11:27:44 JST Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks

     in reply to

     • GabeLakmann
     • Soyak
     • brimshae - now 90% less rambling, like going on about that one time that this guy....

     @GabeLakmann @HWABAG @brimshae Wish I’d’ve kept my old 90’s desert camo stuff of theirs. It was pretty cool

   • Not particularly hype for current thing🍟👩‍❤️‍👨🍔 (ytfoidlover1488@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 20-Mar-2023 11:38:37 JST Not particularly hype for current thing🍟👩‍❤️‍👨🍔

     in reply to

     • GabeLakmann
     • Soyak
     • brimshae - now 90% less rambling, like going on about that one time that this guy....
     @GabeLakmann @HWABAG @WashedOutGundamPilot @brimshae 4chan /out/ (lol) tells me Arc'Teryx is chink crap but they were good in the past. Not that I'd know.
   • GabeLakmann (gabelakmann@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Monday, 20-Mar-2023 11:38:37 JST GabeLakmann

     in reply to

     • Not particularly hype for current thing🍟👩‍❤️‍👨🍔
     • Soyak
     • brimshae - now 90% less rambling, like going on about that one time that this guy....
     The USMC stuff is well made but that isn't an apples to apples comparison so they could be right.
     
     I think they got bought out by chinks so that could explain it. I've never bought any other Arc'Teryx stuff aside from maybe some "combat" knee pads though so I have no first hand experience with them.
     
     For non-military stuff I'll buy Patagonia before Arc'Teryx since its almost as nice for a good deal less money and Patagonia has a lifetime warranty which I believe Arc'Teryx does not have and at those prices it damn well should.
     Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks likes this.
   • Not particularly hype for current thing🍟👩‍❤️‍👨🍔 (ytfoidlover1488@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 20-Mar-2023 11:38:38 JST Not particularly hype for current thing🍟👩‍❤️‍👨🍔

     in reply to

     • GabeLakmann
     • Soyak
     • brimshae - now 90% less rambling, like going on about that one time that this guy....
     @GabeLakmann @HWABAG @WashedOutGundamPilot @brimshae how do you feel about savotta (insanely expensive bags with slick marketing)
   • GabeLakmann (gabelakmann@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Monday, 20-Mar-2023 11:38:38 JST GabeLakmann

     in reply to

     • Not particularly hype for current thing🍟👩‍❤️‍👨🍔
     • Soyak
     • brimshae - now 90% less rambling, like going on about that one time that this guy....
     I've never heard of them to be honest but I'll look them up now that you mentioned them.
     
     For bags I've bought Mystery Ranch, London Bridge Trading, Eagle Industries, Blackhawk, and some older USMC issued stuff that was designed by Arc'Teryx which was pretty good. I'm probably leaving some manufacturer out though.
   • brimshae - now 90% less rambling, like going on about that one time that this guy.... (brimshae@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 20-Mar-2023 12:29:51 JST brimshae - now 90% less rambling, like going on about that one time that this guy....

     in reply to

     • GabeLakmann
     • Soyak
     @WashedOutGundamPilot @GabeLakmann @HWABAG I picked up a bunch of pairs of 5.11 pants from a seconds store for like $15 each. I took them to a nice babushka who does alterations, had her hem them for me for a few bucks each, stuck them in my closet, and forgot about them for the last five months.
     
     They seemed pretty comfy when I tried them on for a test fit, though.
     
     I'll still stick with my (just as overpriced, if not moreso) Kuhl pants, though.
   • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks (washedoutgundampilot@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 20-Mar-2023 12:29:51 JST Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks

     in reply to

     • GabeLakmann
     • Soyak
     • brimshae - now 90% less rambling, like going on about that one time that this guy....

     @brimshae @GabeLakmann @HWABAG He’s talking about their tac gear, very diff. standards.

     I like the 5.11 clothes if your company allows them, on the better end of being cheap and effective with moderate life spans. There are better pants, true, but it’s debatable if the cost increase is worth it. I’d rather have 8 pairs to mix & match over 3 for the same price.

     They DO still look cop-like though, if you’re somewhere that matters.

   • brimshae - now 90% less rambling, like going on about that one time that this guy.... (brimshae@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 20-Mar-2023 12:36:32 JST brimshae - now 90% less rambling, like going on about that one time that this guy....

     in reply to

     • GabeLakmann
     • Soyak
     @WashedOutGundamPilot @GabeLakmann @HWABAG Fair enough, this is quickly becoming a beast of a thread and I've definitely missed some things.
     
     If you want durable pants I've always found the Dickies pants with the double knee to be pretty decent. They're pretty thick though, so that can be an issue if you're working in the heat.
     
     I've had... less success with some of the other styles Dickies puts out, though. It's like they're designed for soprano singers.
     Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks likes this.
   • brimshae - now 90% less rambling, like going on about that one time that this guy.... (brimshae@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 20-Mar-2023 12:52:23 JST brimshae - now 90% less rambling, like going on about that one time that this guy....

     in reply to

     • GabeLakmann
     • Soyak
     @GabeLakmann @HWABAG @WashedOutGundamPilot Kuhl Revolvers have that same pants-for-sopranos problem I mentioned with the non dpuble knee Dickies.
     
     The Lihl Radikls are pretty nice, though. The spandexy mesh in the taint area gives you good airflow and room.
     
     I've worn them on a couple of day trail hikes and they did well. They *are* light and thin, so when it starts getting really windy in the 40s and below they can be a bit chilly.
     
     I *do* like that if they get wet they dry quickly. I have small children and that trait has made them REALLY nice to have when I take them put somewhere and something inevitably gets spilled on me.
     
     They're good for moving around in general as well, too. I'm not as lithe as I used to be, but the Radikls can keep up with my joint hypermobility (and dad reflex dives/leans) just fine.
     
     I kinda hate that metal logo over the coin pocket, though. I always get my house keys caught on it. I also wish the pockets aeren't the same material as the crotch mesh, but they've held up so far.
     Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks likes this.
   • GabeLakmann (gabelakmann@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Monday, 20-Mar-2023 12:52:24 JST GabeLakmann

     in reply to

     • Soyak
     • brimshae - now 90% less rambling, like going on about that one time that this guy....
     Kuhl pants seemed nice when I was looking at them but I didn't try any on. The ones I saw seemed like they had thin material though.
     
     How do you like them overall?