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1. Michael Downey 🇺🇳 (downey@floss.social)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Feb-2023 08:47:23 JST Michael Downey 🇺🇳

   Interesting.

   :opensource: #OpenSource Initiative #OSI using a proprietary issue tracker software for its new website.

   Gotta appease those sweet sweet corporate sponsors, I guess. Even when said sponsors are selling proprietary software.

   #openwashing #hypocrisy #GiveUpGitHub

   https://github.com/OpenSourceOrg/dotOrg

   • Adrian Cochrane repeated this.
   • Michael Downey 🇺🇳 (downey@floss.social)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Feb-2023 09:03:49 JST Michael Downey 🇺🇳

     in reply to

     Imagine running a public charity and then actively promoting the very opposite of what your public charity was trying to accomplish...

     🤯

   • Adrian Cochrane (alcinnz@floss.social)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Feb-2023 09:13:38 JST Adrian Cochrane

     in reply to

     @downey But GitHub is what everyone uses! It is what is easy for people! /s

   • Michael Downey 🇺🇳 (downey@floss.social)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Feb-2023 09:15:21 JST Michael Downey 🇺🇳

     in reply to

     • Adrian Cochrane

     @alcinnz Yes, driving a gas-powered car is easier than fighting for clean air alternatives, but you won't find Greenpeace forcing everyone to pollute in order to support their work.

     Adrian Cochrane repeated this.
   • Adrian Cochrane (alcinnz@floss.social)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Feb-2023 09:21:28 JST Adrian Cochrane

     in reply to

     @downey Agreed! But that's the argument which keeps getting made...

     Honestly though it's not even true that everyone uses GitHub. Most of the components of our operating systems have always operated there, with at most a mirror. Then again that'll be excused by saying these projects are old as if that made them less worthwhile.

   • Nelson Chu Pavlosky (skyfaller@jawns.club)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Feb-2023 09:42:34 JST Nelson Chu Pavlosky

     in reply to

     • Adrian Cochrane

     @downey @alcinnz This is a digression, but you may be surprised how often I've had to drive (or ride in) gas-powered cars while engaging in climate justice activism. Low carbon transportation was generally not a priority for the people planning the actions I was involved in. This was at least as frustrating to me as FOSS projects using GitHub ;-)

     Lately I've taken a hard line and I no longer intend to participate in actions where I may be forced to use cars.

   • Adrian Cochrane (alcinnz@floss.social)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Feb-2023 09:44:46 JST Adrian Cochrane

     in reply to

     • Nelson Chu Pavlosky

     @skyfaller @downey I know how you feel, climate advocates do like being out in nature. Which often requires cars.
     Usually though I get by with an electric scooter! Or car-sharing's an option.

   • Adrian Cochrane (alcinnz@floss.social)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Feb-2023 09:56:32 JST Adrian Cochrane

     in reply to

     • tech? no! man, see...
     • Dave Lane 🇳🇿
     • Nelson Chu Pavlosky

     @lightweight @downey @skyfaller See also the interview with Firefox's CEO @technomancy has just ranted about: https://floss.social/@technomancy@icosahedron.website/109865627803993246

   • Dave Lane 🇳🇿 (lightweight@mastodon.nzoss.nz)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Feb-2023 09:56:33 JST Dave Lane 🇳🇿

     in reply to

     • Adrian Cochrane
     • Nelson Chu Pavlosky

     @downey bingo. See also my thread on TechSoup: https://mastodon.nzoss.nz/@lightweight/109865944427207828 most organisations are mostly focused not on what they *say* they're focused on. They're mostly focused on preserving their powerbase and sphere of influence, and will alter their mission to support that (explicitly if they're honest, but often not, thus becoming a faux-parody of what they claim to be.). @skyfaller @alcinnz

   • Michael Downey 🇺🇳 (downey@floss.social)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Feb-2023 09:56:34 JST Michael Downey 🇺🇳

     in reply to

     • Adrian Cochrane
     • Nelson Chu Pavlosky

     @skyfaller

     💯 ... hypocrisy among so-called community "leaders" sadly remains common, often because said people are not so much driven by actually working toward change, but rather simply toward their next paycheck.

     If you want to find people who actually care about the cause, you generally won't find them "at the top".

     @alcinnz

   • Adrian Cochrane (alcinnz@floss.social)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Feb-2023 09:59:48 JST Adrian Cochrane

     in reply to

     • Dave Lane 🇳🇿
     • Nelson Chu Pavlosky

     @lightweight @downey @skyfaller I appreciate the dev work they do! But I can't defend them as an organization or the effect that (especially their marketing team) has on their product. Or the cringey blogposts they write.

     They have a vital role I want them to continue filling!

   • Dave Lane 🇳🇿 (lightweight@mastodon.nzoss.nz)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Feb-2023 09:59:51 JST Dave Lane 🇳🇿

     in reply to

     • Adrian Cochrane
     • Nelson Chu Pavlosky

     @downey yes, I haven't completely given up on them yet, as I have on the Linux Foundation, but I'm certainly very sceptical these days. I'm not an ally of 'open source' except to the extent that it's used by many when they mean Free Software, and I accept their passion if not correctness in terminology. @skyfaller @alcinnz

   • Michael Downey 🇺🇳 (downey@floss.social)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Feb-2023 09:59:52 JST Michael Downey 🇺🇳

     in reply to

     • Adrian Cochrane
     • Dave Lane 🇳🇿
     • Nelson Chu Pavlosky

     @lightweight @skyfaller @alcinnz

     💯 -- and that ship has sailed for OSI several years ago.

   • Adrian Cochrane (alcinnz@floss.social)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Feb-2023 10:13:12 JST Adrian Cochrane

     in reply to

     • Dave Lane 🇳🇿
     • Matt "msw" Wilson
     • Nelson Chu Pavlosky

     @msw @lightweight @downey @skyfaller Yeah, all I'm seeing as a clash in tactics...

     I may not agree with OSI's tactics here but I can respect them.

   • Matt "msw" Wilson (msw@mstdn.social)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Feb-2023 10:13:13 JST Matt "msw" Wilson

     in reply to

     • Adrian Cochrane
     • Dave Lane 🇳🇿
     • Nelson Chu Pavlosky

     @alcinnz @lightweight @downey @skyfaller I have not given up on the OSI either.

     Unfortunately I think that @downey's "call out" does harm toward a charity that actually has a governance structure that gives individual members a voice.

     I do not see any actions that are designed to "appease" corporate sponsors (who do not get a voice in governance for their gifts).

   • Michael Downey 🇺🇳 (downey@floss.social)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Feb-2023 10:21:48 JST Michael Downey 🇺🇳

     in reply to

     • Simon Phipps

     @webmink

     The difference between

     git remote add origin https://github.com/foo/bar

     and

     git remote add origin https://codeberg.org/foo/bar

     Is literally 2 keystrokes.

     To portray it as some Sisyphean task for OSI to take on in order to use #OpenSource software is disingenuous at best.

     And it's just not believable.

   • Simon Phipps (webmink@meshed.cloud)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Feb-2023 10:21:51 JST Simon Phipps

     in reply to

     @downey There are No. New. Actions. in this area, we are just using existing infra choices that have not come up for fixing yet.

     In an ideal world one would have infinite resources to fix everything that's flawed every time it's observed. But sure, hate on everything we do because there are still flaws to fix. Just lay off the false conspiracy theories and hypocricy slurs because we're real people and that hurts us.

   • Michael Downey 🇺🇳 (downey@floss.social)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Feb-2023 10:21:52 JST Michael Downey 🇺🇳

     in reply to

     • Simon Phipps

     @webmink

     I'm not sure that for an organization the "bit [they] haven't done yet" should be taking actions fully antithetical to their stated mission of promoting open source software.

     Deferring living one's stated values for the sake of convenience may be right for some; not me.

   • Simon Phipps (webmink@meshed.cloud)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Feb-2023 10:21:53 JST Simon Phipps

     in reply to

     @downey
     There is nothing quite like the feeling of working your ass off in the FOSS community on a bunch of things only to be rewarded with someone deciding to criticise the bit you haven't done yet.

     It's even better when they build a conspiracy theory out of it and call you a hypocrite.

   • Simon Phipps (webmink@meshed.cloud)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Feb-2023 10:21:54 JST Simon Phipps

     in reply to

     @downey Or (b) we already have it for historic reasons (it was set up by volunteer directors a long time ago) and it's a work of steady progress.

   • Matt "msw" Wilson (msw@mstdn.social)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Feb-2023 10:43:25 JST Matt "msw" Wilson

     in reply to

     • Adrian Cochrane
     • Dave Lane 🇳🇿
     • Nelson Chu Pavlosky

     @lightweight @alcinnz @downey @skyfaller if you keep pulling at that thread, FOSS projects will reject valuable contributions from developers that just happen to work for a company that many in the community find repugnant.

     I think that we should accept that charities often needed to take funding from wherever they can get it, and we should expect them stand firm that their charitable charter must show no favor in return.

   • Dave Lane 🇳🇿 (lightweight@mastodon.nzoss.nz)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Feb-2023 10:43:30 JST Dave Lane 🇳🇿

     in reply to

     • Adrian Cochrane
     • Matt "msw" Wilson
     • Nelson Chu Pavlosky

     @msw I think that accepting resources from corporations who are well known to actively undermine #Copyleft is unfortunately not a neutral act. It signals an implicit acceptance of those donors' actions, and an obligation from the OSI to give them the benefit of the doubt. We need to convince democratic gov'ts to fund #FOSS as digital critical infrastructure, and shun corporations and their donations entirely. A smart gov't would recognise that. Few, if any, are. @alcinnz @downey @skyfaller

     Adrian Cochrane repeated this.
   • Adrian Cochrane (alcinnz@floss.social)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Feb-2023 10:49:15 JST Adrian Cochrane

     in reply to

     • Dave Lane 🇳🇿
     • Matt "msw" Wilson
     • Nelson Chu Pavlosky

     @lightweight @msw @downey @skyfaller That's uncalled for!

   • Dave Lane 🇳🇿 (lightweight@mastodon.nzoss.nz)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Feb-2023 10:49:17 JST Dave Lane 🇳🇿

     in reply to

     • Adrian Cochrane
     • Matt "msw" Wilson
     • Nelson Chu Pavlosky

     @msw of course, if your bio is any indication of your affiliations, you could be accused of having a vested interest in promoting that line as well. It's certainly consistent with what someone with a deeper loyalty to their employer than to their espoused principles might say. @alcinnz @downey @skyfaller

   • Adrian Cochrane (alcinnz@floss.social)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Feb-2023 11:04:00 JST Adrian Cochrane

     in reply to

     • Dave Lane 🇳🇿
     • Matt "msw" Wilson
     • Nelson Chu Pavlosky

     @lightweight I'd just encourage being careful doing so. Different people may have different tactics for achieving the same ends.

     It is valid to promote the principles we hold ourselves to, but avoid inferring that others are bad people for not meeting our standards!

     @msw @downey @skyfaller

   • Dave Lane 🇳🇿 (lightweight@mastodon.nzoss.nz)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Feb-2023 11:04:02 JST Dave Lane 🇳🇿

     in reply to

     • Adrian Cochrane
     • Matt "msw" Wilson
     • Nelson Chu Pavlosky

     @alcinnz sorry, Adrian. We've got to call out those who have vested interests and remember, at some level of seniority (which I strongly suspect Matt meets or exceeds), who we choose to work for is an ethical decision, and we need to take responsibility (and hold others responsible) for that. @msw @downey @skyfaller

   • Dave Lane 🇳🇿 (lightweight@mastodon.nzoss.nz)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Feb-2023 11:18:29 JST Dave Lane 🇳🇿

     in reply to

     • Adrian Cochrane
     • Matt "msw" Wilson
     • Nelson Chu Pavlosky

     @alcinnz Based on my 30 years of keen observation, those who succumb to that temptation are substantially more likely to change their definition of 'good' to include themselves and their employer than they are to shift their employer's culture for the better. I strongly believe that public corporations are inherently irredeemable - https://davelane.nz/megacorps 2/2
     @msw @downey @skyfaller

     Adrian Cochrane repeated this.
   • Dave Lane 🇳🇿 (lightweight@mastodon.nzoss.nz)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Feb-2023 11:18:32 JST Dave Lane 🇳🇿

     in reply to

     • Adrian Cochrane
     • Matt "msw" Wilson
     • Nelson Chu Pavlosky

     @alcinnz I'm not implying anything except that vested interests create a strong incentive for contra-indicated behaviour, and that has to be taken into account. I also think that there are many who find it useful to claim they're "trying to change' a known bad actor 'from the inside' while drawing a massive salary paid for by proprietary software and user exploitation. 1/2 @msw @downey @skyfaller

   • Adrian Cochrane (alcinnz@floss.social)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Feb-2023 11:18:58 JST Adrian Cochrane

     in reply to

     • Dave Lane 🇳🇿
     • Matt "msw" Wilson
     • Nelson Chu Pavlosky

     @lightweight I am not disagreeing here, employment can shape opinions & I do not trust the strategy of change-from-within.

     Maybe it won't come across as if you are inferring immorality if you focus on the point of disagreement.

     For example I once had an argument with a chrome dev. That disagreement was unusually self-evident: He thought browsers needed to be complex as complex as they currently are, I don't. That's where I focused, & yes it didn't get me anywhere.

     @msw @downey @skyfaller

   • Matt "msw" Wilson (msw@mstdn.social)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Feb-2023 11:25:17 JST Matt "msw" Wilson

     in reply to

     • Adrian Cochrane
     • Dave Lane 🇳🇿
     • Nelson Chu Pavlosky

     @lightweight @alcinnz @downey @skyfaller I generally try to be a humble person, but I am quite confident that my being at Amazon (along with my colleagues who have been FOSS advocates for decades and accepted offers to join) has been a positive influence in how others at Amazon think and act regarding FOSS matters.

     Now, I won't be able to change Amazon and the rest of the industry to return to the "DRM free MP3" days of old. But there are other things I can try to do.

   • Adrian Cochrane (alcinnz@floss.social)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Feb-2023 11:37:36 JST Adrian Cochrane

     in reply to

     • Dave Lane 🇳🇿
     • Matt "msw" Wilson
     • Nelson Chu Pavlosky

     @msw @lightweight @downey @skyfaller Nice shirt!

     Yeah, I have my strategies on the DRM front you might appreciate: I seek out & promote alternative entertainment! I'm finding lots of audioshows I adore...

     I can't see any possibility for the publishers to change, but the need for them outside of marketting has been diminishing. I can do my small part in filling that need.

   • Adrian Cochrane (alcinnz@floss.social)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Feb-2023 11:39:58 JST Adrian Cochrane

     in reply to

     • Dave Lane 🇳🇿
     • Matt "msw" Wilson
     • Nelson Chu Pavlosky

     @lightweight @msw @downey @skyfaller I do appreciate candor, but not ad-hominan attacks. And I value diplomacy, approaching from where people are at.

   • Dave Lane 🇳🇿 (lightweight@mastodon.nzoss.nz)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Feb-2023 11:39:59 JST Dave Lane 🇳🇿

     in reply to

     • Adrian Cochrane
     • Matt "msw" Wilson
     • Nelson Chu Pavlosky

     @alcinnz I think it's important for me, as a matter of good faith, to be transparent about what factors play into my impression of someone else's motives in a exchange (or clash) of values. It allows them to see how I'm forming my impression and allows them to provide arguments for mitigating those factors. I'm endeavouring not to imply anything. My aim is to be explicit where ever possible.
     @msw @downey @skyfaller

   • Matt "msw" Wilson (msw@mstdn.social)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Feb-2023 12:08:24 JST Matt "msw" Wilson

     in reply to

     • Adrian Cochrane
     • Abandoned
     • Dave Lane 🇳🇿
     • Nelson Chu Pavlosky

     @doctormo @lightweight @alcinnz @skyfaller I generally agree, and have often advised caution to avoid inadvertantly putting thumbs on scales or overwhelming communities.

     Some of the loudest critics demand more, but rushing in clumsily is rarely the best action for long term sustainability and community health.

   • Abandoned (doctormo@fosstodon.org)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Feb-2023 12:08:25 JST Abandoned

     in reply to

     • Adrian Cochrane
     • Dave Lane 🇳🇿
     • Matt "msw" Wilson
     • Nelson Chu Pavlosky

     @msw @lightweight @alcinnz @downey@floss.social @skyfaller

     I disagree.

     Firstly; It's important to separate out Free Software charity from non-corporate work. Assuming there's only corporate and charity works... is incorrect. The vast majority of FS work is individual and small business needs. Not charity.

     Large organisations can damage an open source project through sheer presence, very easily. The thumbs on the scale are *very large* and *very clumsy*

     Better the giants stay away then try and be helpful

     Adrian Cochrane repeated this.