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1. cjd (cjd@pkteerium.xyz)'s status on Tuesday, 07-Feb-2023 05:32:06 JST cjd
   Whether vaccines technically work or not is kind of beside the point, they're conceptually broken. In free country, they'd be made by competing businesses that people trust enough to voluntarily take them.
   
   But the whole premise of vaccines is that people are coerced or forced to take them at risk of social exclusion by state power. So they are guaranteed to always be "government quality" crap just good enough to please a bureaucrat - and because it's completely centralized, the risk of supply chain attacks / poison is massive.
   
   Even if they work, states should be forbidden from practicing social exclusion. Drug companies just need to put their thinking caps on and invent something which works WITHOUT relying on totalitarian coercion.
   • LS likes this.
   • cjd (cjd@pkteerium.xyz)'s status on Tuesday, 07-Feb-2023 05:32:01 JST cjd

     in reply to

     • Taylan Kammer
     • Himbo Techbro
     What about New Hampshire, look at Sweden. They didn't do anything and they're still here, right?
     
     Name a war in the last 50 years was truly necessary? Every last one of them seemed necessary at the time - but which one actually DIDN'T make things worse?
     
     How about name a government program which actually ended poverty. Anywhere in the world.
     
     My position is only extreme if you're an interventionist bureaucrat.
     LS likes this.
   • Taylan Kammer (taylan@fedi.feministwiki.org)'s status on Tuesday, 07-Feb-2023 05:32:02 JST Taylan Kammer

     in reply to

     • Himbo Techbro
     @cjd @r000t That's a really extreme position to take. I think there are a lot *more* emergencies out there that are not getting enough or even any attention. Of course, some issues may in turn be blown out of proportion for one or another reason, but I don't believe COVID was an example of that. It's easy to look away and think that everything must really be OK when you live in a small privileged bubble that's relatively unaffected.
   • cjd (cjd@pkteerium.xyz)'s status on Tuesday, 07-Feb-2023 05:32:03 JST cjd

     in reply to

     • Taylan Kammer
     • Himbo Techbro
     > I wonder what motivation you think governments have
     
     Well of course pharma makes a lot of money, and offers jobs to govt people who grease their palms with public money.
     
     But more than that, bureaucrats like to feel like they're important and that that they're helping. Governments have done a huge amount of damage simply because bureaucrats:
     1. Always think there's an emergency
     2. Always think intervention is necessary to stave off disaster
     3. Always think that they're qualified to intervene
     
     In reality, there's essentially never an actual emergency, and as such, government intervention is almost never necessary and it almost always makes things worse.
     
     But if you believe these things, then you realize that bureaucrats are more or less useless. So as a bureaucrat, you will almost by definition believe the fantasy hero story.
   • Himbo Techbro (r000t@ligma.pro)'s status on Tuesday, 07-Feb-2023 05:32:05 JST Himbo Techbro

     in reply to

     @cjd
     Look closer at the year 2021. The state had practically zero power to enforce any sort of mandate, and they knew it quite well. They knew precisely one half of the country was waiting to run to the cameras at the very first sign of anything resembling a mandate... And they did.

     All of the mandates were put into place by businesses. First towards customers, then towards people who could be corcered into giving up medical records under threat of starvation and homelessness. You know... Employees.

     Government will never ever directly take control of anything. They will get private business to do it, because that guarantees the ancap tards will see absolutely nothing wrong with it.

   • Taylan Kammer (taylan@fedi.feministwiki.org)'s status on Tuesday, 07-Feb-2023 05:32:05 JST Taylan Kammer

     in reply to

     • Himbo Techbro
     @r000t @cjd
     
     > Government will never ever directly take control of anything. They will get private business to do it, because that guarantees the ancap tards will see absolutely nothing wrong with it.
     
     To my knowledge, in the US, it's corporations that control the government, not the other way around.
     
     I believe businesses implemented mandates because they knew that they were otherwise risking large numbers of sickness among the workforce, ultimately leading to loss of profit.
     
     We've actually seen a pretty big example of that happening in Germany:
     
     https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-germany-ventilatio-idUSKCN24I1ON
     
     1,500 workers infected, production shut down, forced to install HEPA filters before they were allowed to reopen.
     
     To be completely fair, it sounds like it might have been related to the way the ventilation systems work in meat production sites: Air being constantly recirculated to save on cooling, with viruses surviving longer in the cold air...
     
     Anyhow. I wonder what motivation you think governments have that leads them to implement vaccination mandates, other than a combination of protecting the economy (corpo profits) and protecting public health.
   • cjd (cjd@pkteerium.xyz)'s status on Tuesday, 07-Feb-2023 05:47:32 JST cjd

     in reply to
     But the whole premise <-- let me elaborate: The person taking the vaccine is not the customer, the customer is the person deciding which vaccines are required to avoid social exclusion. So vaccines can NEVER be tested in a free market the way something like aspirin or ibuprofen is.
     
     Therefore, the "success" of a vaccine has nothing to do with how well it works (if at all), but rather how good the company is at lobbying. In fact the smartest vaccine maker will put essentially zero effort into making it, just enough to bang out a patent, and put all of their effort into getting it recognized by governments.
     LS likes this.
   • LS (lain@lain.com)'s status on Tuesday, 07-Feb-2023 05:49:05 JST LS

     in reply to

     • Himbo Techbro
     @r000t @cjd idk man, in germany it was illegal to leave the house after curfew and you weren't allowed in restaurants without being vaccinated.
   • LS (lain@lain.com)'s status on Tuesday, 07-Feb-2023 06:28:43 JST LS

     in reply to

     • Himbo Techbro
     • :gnu:+bonifartius 𒂼𒄄
     @bonifartius @r000t @cjd you could go into home depot, but only to buy catfood. if you also bought a hammer, that's illegal. (source: happened to me)
   • :gnu:+bonifartius 𒂼𒄄 (bonifartius@qoto.org)'s status on Tuesday, 07-Feb-2023 06:28:44 JST :gnu:+bonifartius 𒂼𒄄

     in reply to

     • Himbo Techbro
     • LS

     @lain @r000t @cjd
     "unvaccinated" could literally only buy food and some hygiene stuff for months in germany.

     i don't care about fucking restaurants! something broke in your house? tough luck, better get someone to fix it (expensive). you even weren't permitted into the goddamn home depot by order of the government.

     to add insult to injury the people defending this shit are calling those who demonstrated against this nazis.

   • GNU Too (gnu2@gnusocial.jp)'s status on Tuesday, 07-Feb-2023 07:07:02 JST GNU Too

     in reply to

     • LS
     @bonifartius @lain @cjd @r000t @taylan I'm unaware of any state in which it is illegal to not get vaccinated. I know many public schools require them, which is more a reason to abolish (or at least not enroll your offspring in) public school. I do agree, however, that giving them out for "free" at taxpayers expense is awful. I feel american capitalist have done a great job directing the discussion to be about pro vs. anti vaxx such that any questioning of why Pfzier gets my money to give me free stuff and charges signficantly above market rates to the government labels me as an anti-vaxxer is a real problem.
     LS likes this.
   • cjd (cjd@pkteerium.xyz)'s status on Tuesday, 07-Feb-2023 07:12:54 JST cjd

     in reply to

     • GNU Too
     • LS
     The easy solution is to defund any institution which imposes vaccine mandates. If mandating vaccines is required in order to maintain health within a business, that decision should be made by the business owner alone - or else just install an air filter.
     LS likes this.
   • GNU Too (gnu2@gnusocial.jp)'s status on Tuesday, 07-Feb-2023 08:49:09 JST GNU Too

     in reply to

     • LS
     @cjd @lain we should defund all the things though
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