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1. Victor_Emmanuel (victor_emmanuel@poa.st)'s status on Thursday, 30-Nov-2023 04:50:14 JST Victor_Emmanuel

   • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks
   • Santa Noodle ☦️
   I think I got it. @WashedOutGundamPilot and @BowsacNoodle check my math on this. Women are turned off (at least in the early stages) by men who are interested in them. This is obviously paradoxical because a man talking to or asking out a woman is by definition interested in them. Here is how I square the circle: You are supposed to want to talk/have a date and she just happens to be there.
   • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks (washedoutgundampilot@poa.st)'s status on Thursday, 30-Nov-2023 04:50:14 JST Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks

     in reply to

     • Santa Noodle ☦️

     @Victor_Emmanuel @BowsacNoodle Sorry bud, on a lengthy job w/ people looking over my shoulder every second, not much privacy around here.

     I've always found that the less invested I was in a girl, the more she wanted me. It's dumb and silly but even when I was dating a girl who didn't really like me much, we just kept getting together because we were offended the other one wouldn't fall for us. Very weird relationship. Had I liked her, and gone out of my way to respond to her though, she probably would have ghosted me out of the gate

     (she was granola, REI cashier chick who loved doing guy activities and being competitive in theory but never in practice, didn't really like doing them as much as she did including them as her brand. Would not recommend)

   • Santa Noodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Thursday, 30-Nov-2023 04:50:19 JST Santa Noodle ☦️

     in reply to

     • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks
     @Victor_Emmanuel @WashedOutGundamPilot >Women are turned off (at least in the early stages) by men who are interested in them.
     Being coy/hard to get is the natural reaction of a lot of women. What's incredibly gay about our current culture is they teach "no means no" and dudes who are normal and just trying to make their way through life hear that and believe it. They should've been teaching people not to rape or be in rape-promoting situations and encouraging a culture of men that beat the shit out of dudes who try to rape or drug girls or get them overly drunk to take advantage of them. Instead, they disempowered the only ones who cared— those who actually listened. No doesn't always mean no, and any man who's married can tell you that.
     
     >This is obviously paradoxical because a man talking to or asking out a woman is by definition interested in them. Here is how I square the circle: You are supposed to want to talk/have a date and she just happens to be there.
     It's like fishing. The line has to be there but if the fish recognizes it as bait, they won't bite. Instead it just needs to be appealing to them and present. When we had more social activities in our culture, being around other people was a normal thing and an opportunity to have your metaphorical fishing line out there.
     Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks likes this.
   • Victor_Emmanuel (victor_emmanuel@poa.st)'s status on Thursday, 30-Nov-2023 04:51:31 JST Victor_Emmanuel

     in reply to

     • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks
     • Santa Noodle ☦️
     @BowsacNoodle @WashedOutGundamPilot >Being coy/hard to get is the natural reaction of a lot of women
     But pursuing a woman in this case means your interested without ambiguity.
     > “no means no”
     Ok but does that mean I can be insistent without being creepy?
     >it’s like fishing
     So am I over complicating it or flat wrong. Also we are in a drought.
   • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks (washedoutgundampilot@poa.st)'s status on Thursday, 30-Nov-2023 04:51:31 JST Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks

     in reply to

     • Santa Noodle ☦️

     @Victor_Emmanuel @BowsacNoodle I had success once telling a girl "hey I like your style, can you help me come pick out some stuff at ikea? I'll buy you dinner"

     Fairly low-pressure, fun chance to go and play around without it being anything too serious

   • Santa Noodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Thursday, 30-Nov-2023 04:52:09 JST Santa Noodle ☦️

     in reply to

     • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks
     @Victor_Emmanuel @WashedOutGundamPilot >But pursuing a woman in this case means your interested without ambiguity.
     Yeah, but you start with more of a casual approach. PUA stuff is often very gross and degenerate, but there's value in learning body language and signals. Stuff like seeing their eyes move away when you look at them, them touching your arm casually or playing with their hair about while talking to you is good to notice, also what they say to you (topics, context, etc.) and how. Men are more direct, right? Women will mention it's cold and assume you understand they want to cuddle or something, while a man saying it's cold is just matter of fact statement or idle chat. Apply that same logic across the board but don't misread friendliness.
     >does that mean I can be insistent without being creepy?
     Yes, but read the room and situation. With fish, the hook must be set before you try to bring it in. Be fairly sure you're not wildly misreading the situation, and laugh it off if you are. It will happen. "Hey, there's this [fun activity that is happening in a group setting] soon. Any chance you'd want to go?" Something like that shows your interest, isn't threatening or creepy, and gives opportunity for her to politely decline if she's not interested or taken or whatever and possibly propose an alternative if she is legitimately busy but interested.
     >So am I over complicating it or flat wrong. Also we are in a drought.
     Not any worse than every other dude in history. We used to have a society which promoted families and we could outsource some of our grug high functioning "tism" towards it. The drought aspect is real though. Still, you'll miss every fish you don't try to catch and practice does really help. So does booze if you drink, but just enough to not be self conscious.
     Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks likes this.
   • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks (washedoutgundampilot@poa.st)'s status on Thursday, 30-Nov-2023 04:55:44 JST Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks

     in reply to

     • Santa Noodle ☦️

     @Victor_Emmanuel @BowsacNoodle Being insistent is.....hard to trust in text. It's a bit like training a dog. You have to sense whether she's got a good reason or not. Is she shy and simply afraid of leaving her comfort zone? (she'll regret saying no and obsess over it for days) or is she simply grossed out and all you're doing is blowing up your spot?

   • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks (washedoutgundampilot@poa.st)'s status on Thursday, 30-Nov-2023 05:38:53 JST Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks

     in reply to

     • Santa Noodle ☦️

     @Victor_Emmanuel @BowsacNoodle Most likely, as long as you're sane and able to read serious distaste. Without seeing it in person I never know how accurately someone's reading a girl

   • Victor_Emmanuel (victor_emmanuel@poa.st)'s status on Thursday, 30-Nov-2023 05:38:54 JST Victor_Emmanuel

     in reply to

     • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks
     • Santa Noodle ☦️
     @WashedOutGundamPilot @BowsacNoodle but is my solution sound?
     Act/want to talk/date and she just happens to be there.
   • Santa Noodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Thursday, 30-Nov-2023 09:38:18 JST Santa Noodle ☦️

     in reply to

     • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks
     @Victor_Emmanuel @WashedOutGundamPilot >a single failure is catastrophic
     Only if you let it be. Don't sweat it and it's not. Seriously. Asking a girl if she wants to go to the Christmas festival with you and getting turned down is a part of getting practice. Your self esteem might be hurt a bit, but it's also a lesson in what exactly you might've missed or interpreted the wrong way. It doesn't even have to be very formal.
     >I'm going to the Christmas festival this weekend. Ever go? Oh cool, maybe I'll see you there!
     And judging reaction might be enough of as thing to ask if she wants to meet there and prompt the phone number exchange. If you're nervous of accusations of impropriety and the state law allows it, put your phone's recorder software on (and minimize the app before putting in your pocket in case phone number exchange happens). And I just realized none of this matters because you're trying to figure out why you're attracting a girl you have no interest in. Good luck with that! :angrylaugh:
   • Victor_Emmanuel (victor_emmanuel@poa.st)'s status on Thursday, 30-Nov-2023 09:38:18 JST Victor_Emmanuel

     in reply to

     • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks
     • Santa Noodle ☦️
     @BowsacNoodle @WashedOutGundamPilot What I mean by catastrophic is a man pursuing a “no” and being branded a rapist. For women the catastrophe is not understanding how men feel about sex and thus becoming a slut that doesn’t understand why ever man leaves her.
   • Victor_Emmanuel (victor_emmanuel@poa.st)'s status on Thursday, 30-Nov-2023 09:38:19 JST Victor_Emmanuel

     in reply to

     • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks
     • Santa Noodle ☦️
     @BowsacNoodle @WashedOutGundamPilot oh so it a conditional. “If she looks first”
   • Santa Noodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Thursday, 30-Nov-2023 09:38:19 JST Santa Noodle ☦️

     in reply to

     • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks
     @Victor_Emmanuel @WashedOutGundamPilot Yes kind of? But like if you smiled at her first and then looked away and catch her glance lingering and she darts away when you look back, that's the same thing. I had a girl who was madly into me in my younger years that I caught doing this and was autistically Chad enough to ask her. Her BFF told me it's because she was in love with me. I never would've realized because I'm a guy. Women truly do not get our level of obliviousness and lack of passive absorption of their way of communicating.
   • Victor_Emmanuel (victor_emmanuel@poa.st)'s status on Thursday, 30-Nov-2023 09:38:19 JST Victor_Emmanuel

     in reply to

     • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks
     • Santa Noodle ☦️
     @BowsacNoodle @WashedOutGundamPilot it’s not so much obliviousness but rather that understanding the opposite sex is a skill that needs to be learned. and we live in a society where a single failure is catastrophic and thus nobody has room to learn .
   • Victor_Emmanuel (victor_emmanuel@poa.st)'s status on Thursday, 30-Nov-2023 09:38:20 JST Victor_Emmanuel

     in reply to

     • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks
     • Santa Noodle ☦️
     @BowsacNoodle @WashedOutGundamPilot >eyes move away when you look at them
     Wait, does this mean she’s interested or not? I could see both ways. Out of shyness/nervousness or disgust.
     >Still, you'll miss every fish you don't try to catch and practice does really help.
     Yea I know. I thought of my OP when thinking about a recent party I went to and a coworker who’s obviously into me.
   • Santa Noodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Thursday, 30-Nov-2023 09:38:20 JST Santa Noodle ☦️

     in reply to

     • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks
     @Victor_Emmanuel @WashedOutGundamPilot >Wait, does this mean she’s interested or not?
     it means she's interested in you and you caught her checking you out. Especially if she's otherwise friendly towards you.
   • Victor_Emmanuel (victor_emmanuel@poa.st)'s status on Thursday, 30-Nov-2023 09:38:39 JST Victor_Emmanuel

     in reply to

     • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks
     • Santa Noodle ☦️
     @BowsacNoodle @WashedOutGundamPilot but I’m also trying to translate this accidental success into something reproducible