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Christianity is about humans being blind to the most heavily foreshadowed event and central figure thereof, intentionally or not.
And from there you immediately run up against the science cult that will go to extremely creative lengths to avoid admitting the truth of the Bible.
I don't think anyone else can truly comprehend the extent to which authorities will work against them. They can't break the idea that authority is right, because they believe it to be the ultimate authority.
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@MK2boogaloo @Crux_Invictus @Hypershell @Zerglingman Well first, Malachi predicted a return of Elijah. He meant it typologically, as Jesus identifies the "Elijah" figure as John the Baptist. But that didn't stop people from interpreting Malachi 4 as being a physical event, so they wondered if Jesus was calling the prophet down from heaven. After all, Elijah ran the school of the prophets when he walked the earth, so he became something of a patron saint of prophets everywhere; since some people in Christ's earthly ministry believed He was just a prophet, they were likely thinking of this.
As for why Jesus asks why the Father has forsaken Him, keep in mind that Jesus was in that moment taking all of our sins upon Himself. Our Heavenly Father does not tolerate the presence of sin, let alone every sin ever committed by any human being, so the best way to explain what happened is, the Father turned His face away. There was a mysterious strain (but not breaking) on the Trinity that day which we cannot explain, and all our Lord Jesus can express in that moment is absolute sorrow and pain. This was no mere death by crucifixion, it also included more guilt and abandonment and condemnation than anyone has ever felt. He suffered so immensely that His heart ruptured violently, as we see with the paracardial fluid which flowed from His side after the Roman soldier stabbed Him.
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@SuperLutheran @MK2boogaloo @Hypershell @Zerglingman To add to Super's response there are also the words Jesus cries out while on the Cross as recorded in the Gospels of Matthew and Mark:
>And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?” that is, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” (Matthew 27:46)
>And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, “Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?” which means, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” (Mark 15:34)
So some of the people present heard Jesus cry out "Eli" (Matthew) or "Eloi" (Mark) and thought they heard "Elijah". His words on the Cross are also a direct reference to and fulfillment of Psalm 22.
And for why Jesus asks why God the Father has forsaken Him. Super has covered that well but I think it also shows us a very raw look at Jesus the man. He was already tortured near to death before being nailed to the Cross and now here at the moment of His death in extreme suffering He cries out. I hesitate to say that Jesus cries out in weakness, because He isn't weak, but I lack the words to explain it in a better way.
I think we have a habit of seeing Jesus as only divine, forgetting His human nature as the Son of man. But by reading the Gospels and seeing what He went through for us, what He truly experienced and the suffering He bore even before the Cross. By reading and understanding this we see Jesus the man who being fully human but also fully divine experienced the human condition fully. Though He is without Sin He was not without suffering.
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@Hypershell @Zerglingman I also struggle with Romans 13:1-7 but before we try and dodge what St Paul is getting at we should examine ourselves. Are we struggling to understand how God can put a ruler in place who will actively persecute His Church? Are we looking for an approved way to rise in rebellion against these rulers?
I would encourage you to have a listen to @SuperLutheran series on Romans: soundcloud.com/verylutheran/sets/going-through-romans to really understand what St Paul is getting at in this Epistle.
How I've come to terms with Romans 13:1-7 is that God puts people in positions of authority for His purposes. But the person still has the choice to be a good or bad servant of God. So we don't have an excuse to disrespect rulers or refuse to honour them because they persecute us. Nor do we have an excuse to not follow the law of the land or so on.
But there are limits here as if the earthly ruler would put us in a position where by following their law we go against God's Law. We are to obey God and disobey the earthly ruler. But this disobedience is peaceful for as long as it is possible to resist peacefully.
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@Crux_Invictus @Hypershell @Zerglingman @SuperLutheran you know, I'm stuck on a particular thing Jesus said before His death. When he called God the Father and people thought He was calling Elijah. Why did He mean by that? Also by calling to God the Father on why He has forsaken Him.
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@Zerglingman
I think the phrase, "There is no authority except that which God has established," lost a few details in translation... It is true that respect for authority is a Christian value, but respect is a 2 way street, and it has its limits. There is certainly no shortage of earthly leaders who demand ungodly behavior in this day and age.
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@Crux_Invictus @SuperLutheran @MK2boogaloo @Hypershell @Zerglingman Building on this, the teaching of the Church is that Christ beheld the Beatific Vision at all times throughout His Earthly life, and at this moment the will of the Trinity was to withhold it from the Son, and therefore we find Christ at His most human in this moment of propitiation.
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SuperLutheran (Festive half)
Crux_Invictus
Kerokeronim
Hypershell
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