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1. mullvad (shlomo@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 28-Aug-2023 04:37:16 JST mullvad
   russia said nato is preparing to hand over 100 f16 to oinkraine
   ,they said once those planes are inside ukraine russia will remove all war restrictions on foreign enemies
   :pepebee:
   • Boomerman (boomerman@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 28-Aug-2023 04:37:14 JST Boomerman

     in reply to

     • Quentel
     @Shlomo @Quentel Which countries are saying theyll give? I remember seeing maybe denmark was gonna. Hilarious that the poles are getting cucked this hard. Theyve been begging for years for f16s
   • Quentel (quentel@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Monday, 28-Aug-2023 04:37:15 JST Quentel

     in reply to
     @Shlomo
     
     Could it be a bluff? If not, then escalation is almost guaranteed.
   • mullvad (shlomo@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 28-Aug-2023 04:37:15 JST mullvad

     in reply to

     • Quentel
     @Quentel they already normalized cluster munition, why would this not happen
   • mullvad (shlomo@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 28-Aug-2023 04:37:16 JST mullvad

     in reply to
     douma mentioned using nukes on hostile nations to enforce permanent peace. the goal is to conduct maximum damage on plane providing nations to enforce perma peace. the speaker said civilians causalities are acceptable
   • mullvad (shlomo@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 28-Aug-2023 04:37:26 JST mullvad

     in reply to

     • Boomerman
     • Quentel
     @Boomerman @Quentel most of nato nations.
   • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks (washedoutgundampilot@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 28-Aug-2023 04:42:31 JST Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks

     in reply to

     @Shlomo From who though? The only people who’d be willing to accept dogshit uke credit for their good birds are……IDK, nobody’s that retarded. They’re getting the dutch castoff Falcons because they’re older and already pretty much timed out - not much life left in them, and that won’t matter if they only need to last 3 sorties before getting scrapped by a SAM.

     I know there’re a lot of F-16s out there, it’s basically the most produced gen4 fighter ever, but that doesn’t mean you can just throw them away for free. Unless people are getting rapid replacements of Victors from the line - all of which are spoken for through 2028 last I checked - they have nowhere to draw from.

     Sure, conceivably they could do something like gut a bunch of ANG units to ship them over, but those too will be pretty dogged and yet another mishmash of data specs and interoperability nightmares.

     Also digi cam is gay and not a good look for the falcon

   • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks (washedoutgundampilot@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 28-Aug-2023 04:44:03 JST Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks

     in reply to

     @Shlomo I just hope the russkies have enough good aviators to give us a show. I fear the gayest possible route will be the one that comes true: Low-time, inexperienced ukrainian pilots flying western fighters like they’re soviets, wasting their strengths and exacerbating their weaknesses…getting blown away by nothing but SAMs week after week while they whine that they really need F35s to do the job.

     Worse, the ukes will probably be retarded and waste their veteran, experienced guys as new falcon drivers instead of instructors, just like their idols in the luftwaffe did. They value the twitter likes of an ace adding to his tally more than the guy safely in the rear turning out a dozen competent students every 3 months

   • BobsonDugnuttHB (bobsondugnutthb@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 28-Aug-2023 04:47:26 JST BobsonDugnuttHB

     in reply to

     • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks
     @WashedOutGundamPilot @Shlomo The ukes just lost their most famous wartime pilot and two other pilots in a demo/training accident.
     Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks likes this.
   • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks (washedoutgundampilot@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 28-Aug-2023 04:49:31 JST Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks

     in reply to

     • BobsonDugnuttHB

     @BobsonDugnuttHB @Shlomo That happens, too. What’s weird is I’ve heard very little about russkie’s combat aviation aside from their helos. Kinda ffirms everything I heard over the years - they aren’t really big on air power, it’s kind of a ‘keeping up w/ the joneses’ thing for them.

     Russia only goes to the trouble because they have to go through the motions of a modern military, but they find it too expensive to be worth the attention america lavishes on it.

   • Marakus (marakus@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 28-Aug-2023 04:53:11 JST Marakus

     in reply to

     • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks
     @WashedOutGundamPilot @Shlomo You imply they actually try to win the war, and not just damage Europe as much as possible. Its exactly the same as "save X" scams, nothing but most expensive solution can work, so send as much money as you can, because its your fault if you cheapen out. "Sanctions" are designed to inflict economic damage on Europe and "send weapons" designed to enrich weapon manufacturers, which will give them even more economic power, which will lead to further escalation of any conflict, because "gotta spend these weapons somehow or economy will collapse!".
   • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks (washedoutgundampilot@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 28-Aug-2023 04:53:11 JST Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks

     in reply to

     • Marakus

     @Marakus @Shlomo They STILL gotta con someone into giving up their planes, and these things aren’t just a quick buy. There’s a lead time of about a decade right now, and with antsy spinsters running so much of europe, it’s a hard sell to get them to hand over their $60 million security blanket when adolf putler himself is “on the front door of europe”.

     What do you tell them? “Hand over your F16s and we’ll give you a deal on F35’s, we have delivery slots available in March of 2033”? The motives don’t matter when you have to work with people you don’t control, you still have to wheel and deal (unless the puppet masters can order them to just hand this stuff over - and that’s not really in the cards or they’d have done it already)

   • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks (washedoutgundampilot@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 28-Aug-2023 05:07:01 JST Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks

     in reply to

     • BobsonDugnuttHB

     @BobsonDugnuttHB @Shlomo Their Air-to-Air game is uh…..basically the same as it was in the 90’s, ergo the 80’s too. Their SAMs are the spookiest arrow in the quiver, but if you were to play them off directly, head to head with nothing but their own combat controllers, no sams, and have experienced US Falcon guys against nearly any A2A fighter in the Russian fleet….the russkies would get shellacked.

     We just outspend them too much, for all our bloat, waste, and machinery we DO still spend a lot of attention and effort on training to their books and standards. We hire private companies to learn russian tactics and billion dollar wargames just to get our guys accustomed to how (we think) russians fight. I don’t think they’re willing to spend that kind of money. They spend that money on better assets like SAMS and standoff munitions, but their funding is far more limited than uncle sam’s trillion-dollar credit card. We have so much money that our PRIVATELY OWNED AGGRESSOR CONTRACTORS have F16s with AESA radar in them. That’s how much money they blow on this stuff. How can you compete with that when your economy is based in reality, on real commodities and not jew-magic?

     That’s why piloting will be interesting to see. I think the ukes will do most of it (and die quickly for most, b/c uke command is retarded about using their own tactics, and the F16’s really need independence and mobility - elements that require years of practice to use effectively. Ukes will probably vector their guys to do A2G missions and unknowingly set them up for failure from the start) but there’ll be a few nato pilots out there to score some kills with the occasional ultra-pricy yankee munition for the twitter likes.

     All of this is pure conjecture though, and I don’t pay much attention to the war. I DO have a lot of water cooler talk w/ fighter guys, their contractors, and even dudes who went over the russia and flew their fighters before, and their air power doesn’t seem to have changed too much since then. Last year were still running Su25’s with a damn AA-powered garmin Etrex in the dash….I threw mine away in 2009 because it sucked too badly for continued use

   • BobsonDugnuttHB (bobsondugnutthb@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 28-Aug-2023 05:07:02 JST BobsonDugnuttHB

     in reply to

     • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks
     @WashedOutGundamPilot @Shlomo I hear about their planes a lot, but always in the context of dropping guided FABs and close air support.
   • Boomerman (boomerman@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 28-Aug-2023 05:32:05 JST Boomerman

     in reply to

     • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks
     • BobsonDugnuttHB
     @WashedOutGundamPilot @BobsonDugnuttHB @Shlomo I think their su 35s are legit and if anything this war has woken up the russians too just how important a competent air force is. How thatll pan out remains to be seen. I think youre spot on about the ukies though and without all the awacs jtacs and fuel support i expect these 100 16s to get attrited fast.
   • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks (washedoutgundampilot@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 28-Aug-2023 05:32:05 JST Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks

     in reply to

     • BobsonDugnuttHB
     • Boomerman

     @Boomerman @BobsonDugnuttHB @Shlomo The 35 is as close as they’ve gotten to catching up, we’ll have to see how many they can field. The new glass is basically them cribbing lessons from the civilian scene, adding some screens where they can and trying to play catch-up, but they’re still about 20 years behind.

     It’s a passable retrofit, but they still have some room to improve (much like our lightning, which has forgotten some of those lessons in favor of multifunction buttons) The buttons are all too similar, the stick still sits between your legs (not comfy and it uses up invaluable workspace on the lap). It’s as good as they’re gonna get for a time, but it still has the scent of that russian obstinance like they’re too good to put THAT much thought into ergonomics.

     We put a whole lot of research into breaking down EVERY part of the cockpit and making it as inobtrusive as possible. That pays dividends when you’re adrenaline soaked, when you need your eyes on the box and out the bubble. Our stuff has been broken down a thousand different ways to make sure you can operate a box without looking at it, that you can reach your hand and complete basic muscle memory tasks with minimal processing power. Seeing the russian’s solution of having like, 60 identically sized buttons surrounding a panel is something you’d see in 90’s business jets. (Note that the 16’s buttons are kinda caged, so you can feel your way up and hit them in that center console, closer to your body. Further out you have the bigger ones for multifunction)

     Then again, the russian school has some thought behind it too: Every knob represents a subsystem, compartmentalized and more easily serviced. When you combine something into a single control, you end up with our lovely 20:1 maint:flight ratio (generous for some A/C)

     This kind of thing is what I love picking old guys’ brains about. This is the distillation of HOURS of late night drinking asking about development processes and research expeditions to ukraine in the wake of the soviet breakup. Russkies have a very alien approach to a lot of their aviation, some of it is better, some is worse. They just weight different aspects of the mission more than we do. We consider top end performance, cost no object, while they’re grounded in reality to have a functioning aircraft they can afford to repair

   • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks (washedoutgundampilot@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 28-Aug-2023 05:34:56 JST Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks

     in reply to

     • BobsonDugnuttHB

     @BobsonDugnuttHB @Shlomo If they have F16’s I’ll pay more attention, I only really see the Helo stuff most of the time, and the fighter jock boomers I know tend to have crap news sources to draw from. Most of what I’m saying comes from older info anyways. For some reason I just come into contact with a lot of big-talking old guys with experience in this stuff, and if the stories are true (likely a percentage hyperbolized) then they at least have some experience flying russian stuff. Nobody’s touched a 35 though, the most recent aircraft an american flew is the Su..29? the poles use? I think a bud flew one of those on some exchange trip

   • BobsonDugnuttHB (bobsondugnutthb@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 28-Aug-2023 05:34:57 JST BobsonDugnuttHB

     in reply to

     • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks
     @WashedOutGundamPilot @Shlomo I don't have anything to add since this is your specialty and it's way outside my wheelhouse. I do kinda wish you followed the war more closely just to have your take on the air aspects, but I understand not having the time and interest.
     Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks likes this.
   • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks (washedoutgundampilot@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 28-Aug-2023 06:15:44 JST Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks

     in reply to

     • BobsonDugnuttHB
     • Boomerman

     @Boomerman @BobsonDugnuttHB @Shlomo They’re spending their money pretty wisely, I’m just saying that their cockpits are wallpapered over. If you’ve ever done racing, or really taken a machine to its limits you know how infuriating it is whenever you have niggles getting in the way. A wobbly wheel, a slippery control, and touchscreen needing you to take your eyes out the window and look down for 5 seconds to find the right button….all those things add up and can result in that tiny, second-long slip up that results in your death.

     Funny that it also appears in the AK/AR breakdown. The AR is ergonomically damn solid. You can put your hands anywhere you want and hold it how you will, reload it in flash with your off hand while staying on target. It takes all kinds of optics and has a simple, way to free float the barrel and mount accessories up front. The downside? It requires fancy-boy aluminum and a whole lot of technology to manufacture, a fact we forget because of our ludicrous economy of scale enjoyed today.

     The AK is optimised for winter gloves, and robust, easy construction above all else. with a cheesy reciprocating charging handle requiring all kinds of weak hand shenanigans and retarded optic mounts just to get it to even begin to touch the ergonomic ‘perfection’ of the AR. Sure, our guys have broken down the kinesthetics to their barest essence, but shit like THIS reload ain’t something I’m breaking out while exhausted, under fire. Too much potential to fumble it. And he doesn’t even have an optic rail to shred his knuckles on there.

     Russkie design philosophy is just interesting like that. I just wish they offered us a more….terrifying challenger like they used to in the 60’s. There used to be this sense of parity, even fear when guys talked about going up against them. But since 93 we’ve basically been content to outspend them and watch them imitate us. It would be cool to see USAF planners grimace in nervousness at the thought of going up against Russia’s best pilots. Instead they’re rarin’ to go like a pitbull eyeing the soft, pudgy baby fat of a newborn infant

   • Boomerman (boomerman@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 28-Aug-2023 06:15:45 JST Boomerman

     in reply to

     • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks
     • BobsonDugnuttHB
     @WashedOutGundamPilot @BobsonDugnuttHB @Shlomo I think the design and layout probably works good for the slavo russian brain. I assume no matter what itll always be different than ours. Their engines and radars have caught up big time though and in a way that making a cockpit easier to fly wont necessarily fix.
   • MoralPanic:sonnenrad: (moralpanic@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 28-Aug-2023 06:19:38 JST MoralPanic:sonnenrad:

     in reply to

     • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks
     • BobsonDugnuttHB
     • Boomerman
     @WashedOutGundamPilot @Boomerman @BobsonDugnuttHB @Shlomo I'm speaking way out of line here but you sound like a nerd who would fold with one punch to the face, that's how I see the American military
   • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks (washedoutgundampilot@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 28-Aug-2023 06:19:38 JST Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks

     in reply to

     • MoralPanic:sonnenrad:
     • BobsonDugnuttHB
     • Boomerman

     @MoralPanic @Boomerman @BobsonDugnuttHB @Shlomo Lucky for us we might get to see these schools duke it out soon enough

   • Boomerman (boomerman@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 28-Aug-2023 06:27:07 JST Boomerman

     in reply to

     • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks
     • BobsonDugnuttHB
     @WashedOutGundamPilot @BobsonDugnuttHB @Shlomo All this true but at the end of the day were talking about the margins and while the margin is very important its the margin for a reason. We get to dive into marginal shit because we had a better base too work from. The russians are improving their base while were still improving on the margins.
     Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks likes this.
   • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks (washedoutgundampilot@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 28-Aug-2023 06:29:06 JST Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks

     in reply to

     • BobsonDugnuttHB
     • Boomerman

     @Boomerman @BobsonDugnuttHB @Shlomo Well the most interesting would be to see tomorrow’s military take to the skies. Sending F-16s and experienced, eager white guys is letting us cheat. We SHOULD be loaning out a PMC company full of females and browns! That would yield better data