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1. Aral Balkan (aral@mastodon.ar.al)'s status on Wednesday, 10-May-2023 21:48:50 JST Aral Balkan

   Encrypted messaging provider: “We make our money selling this to the police.”

   Tech folks: This is cool and normal.

   #matrix #element #privacy #acab #e2ee #messaging

   • Aral Balkan (aral@mastodon.ar.al)'s status on Wednesday, 10-May-2023 22:49:53 JST Aral Balkan

     in reply to

     • Tim Panton

     @steely_glint Frankly, I couldn’t give two shits what they use. I’m just pretty sure I won’t be using the same one.

   • Tim Panton (steely_glint@chaos.social)'s status on Wednesday, 10-May-2023 22:49:55 JST Tim Panton

     in reply to

     @aral Which messaging system would you prefer the police to use ?

   • Aral Balkan (aral@mastodon.ar.al)'s status on Wednesday, 10-May-2023 22:51:03 JST Aral Balkan

     in reply to

     • Ian Betteridge

     @ianbetteridge Oh, that’s ok then :) *phew!*

   • Ian Betteridge (ianbetteridge@mastodon.me.uk)'s status on Wednesday, 10-May-2023 22:51:04 JST Ian Betteridge

     in reply to

     @aral Mate, that’s really not what they said though was it? They sell to governments and organisations, not just “the police”.

   • Aral Balkan (aral@mastodon.ar.al)'s status on Wednesday, 10-May-2023 22:54:56 JST Aral Balkan

     in reply to

     • Carl Schwan :kde:

     @carlschwan Looks at self. Wonders, “do I even exist?"

     We don’t. We would never.

     (See, it’s really not that hard. Depends what you’re about. We’re not an enterprise software company but a not-for-profit working to safeguard human rights.)

     https://small-tech.org

   • Carl Schwan :kde: (carlschwan@floss.social)'s status on Wednesday, 10-May-2023 22:54:57 JST Carl Schwan :kde:

     in reply to

     @aral Unfortunately you will have an hard time finding an open source company not selling their tech to the defense industry/police... They are often the most interested in this sort of technology and then you already have trouble to pay your employees you don't have the privileged to be picky. Source I have worked in an open source company and I'm familiar with the business model of a a few others.

   • Aral Balkan (aral@mastodon.ar.al)'s status on Wednesday, 10-May-2023 22:56:07 JST Aral Balkan

     in reply to

     • Alex 🇮🇹 💛 🇷🇺

     @alexl What’s the shortcut, Alex?

     And shortcut to what, exactly?

   • Alex 🇮🇹 💛 🇷🇺 (alexl@pkm.social)'s status on Wednesday, 10-May-2023 22:56:08 JST Alex 🇮🇹 💛 🇷🇺

     in reply to

     @aral

     You are trying to take a shortcut that doesn't exist.

     As someone who has personally witnessed the use of violence by the police against peaceful demonstrators, I have to say that it makes no sense to call for a complete boycott of the police as a whole and hope that no one will implement any communication system for them.

   • Aral Balkan (aral@mastodon.ar.al)'s status on Wednesday, 10-May-2023 22:58:29 JST Aral Balkan

     in reply to

     Since folks are asking and replies don‘t always federate properly:

     https://mastodon.matrix.org/@element/110340953550548309

     #matrix #element #privacy #acab #e2ee #messaging

   • Aral Balkan (aral@mastodon.ar.al)'s status on Wednesday, 10-May-2023 23:09:52 JST Aral Balkan

     in reply to

     • Alex 🇮🇹 💛 🇷🇺

     @alexl What does “waging war between the poor” mean? Who’s doing this and how are they doing it? Are Element poor? They have at least $30M in VC.

     Also, raising awareness is a huge part of what I do. How do you propose we raise awareness without challenging crap like this? How does anything change if we remain quiet?

     I’m sorry but, if anything, I’m more confused that before. I don’t understand what you’re criticising and why.

   • Alex 🇮🇹 💛 🇷🇺 (alexl@pkm.social)'s status on Wednesday, 10-May-2023 23:09:54 JST Alex 🇮🇹 💛 🇷🇺

     in reply to

     @aral

     I mean that the police are part of a system of power legitimized by most people who have blind faith in institutions. Even if it is important to demonstrate peacefully, we must not risk waging war between the poor while the system of power remains. The only solution is to raise people's awareness, it's a slow process and there are no shortcuts.

   • Julian Lam (devnull@crag.social)'s status on Thursday, 11-May-2023 03:39:56 JST Julian Lam

     in reply to

     • aria, créature du chaos

     @melunaka @aral #floss software shouldn't be gated behind personal ethics and morals, as that goes against the whole concept of it being free / #libre. I may not agree with people who use my software, but I consider it being free/libre a net benefit to society.

   • aria, créature du chaos (melunaka@eldritch.cafe)'s status on Thursday, 11-May-2023 03:40:03 JST aria, créature du chaos

     in reply to

     • Julian Lam

     @devnull @aral
     A lot of people are using encryption to protect themselves from states and police: queer people, anarchists, communists, antifascists, immigrants, drug users, sex workers, etc. Not because they’re corrupted, but because they’re working exactly as intended.

     What’s the point of using Free Software if it’s to help the armed branch of proto-fascist states? Who are we trying to liberate with software and why, what’s the point? I think we have to remember that software is a tool that accomplish things (what?) for people (who?). Whatever oppressive institution using Free Software isn’t building a better future.

   • Julian Lam (devnull@crag.social)'s status on Thursday, 11-May-2023 03:40:04 JST Julian Lam

     in reply to

     @aral I don't understand the controversy here, why is it that we fight for regular joes to have access to encrypted messaging but we draw the line at government services? The police (whatever your opinion of them) are currently not meant to be openly transparent, they have oversight boards for that reason.

     Whether they are corrupted or not is also out of scope of this discussion, but it seems to me like a double standard to say "encryption for me, but not for you".

   • Zonder Zon (ohne_sonne@potate.space)'s status on Thursday, 11-May-2023 03:40:18 JST Zonder Zon

     in reply to

     • Julian Lam
     • aria, créature du chaos

     @devnull @melunaka @aral Developing tools for the benefit of people who are very much willing to kill you*? Is that what "free" means for you?

     *perhaps not you specifically, but some communities, partially listed above, are and will be directly targeted.