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I think discord is fine and I'll never be convinced otherwise but I do think it's fucking retarded for anyone to use it as a hub for all your information.
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@triodug forums are great
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I felt the same way when game devs ditched forums and put fucking everything on Reddit which made it so much more difficult to find any useful and correct information.
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But also anyone I've ever known that hates discord uses [other chat program] that seems the exact same to me so idk I think the solution here is to just go back to forums.
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Wish they were more prominent on the internet 😔
All people seem to want these days are link aggregators and short form content
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@kroner @triodug the issue is that people in general are using link/content aggregator as discussion forums (Facebook, Reddit, Twitter) which are awful for exactly just that for multiple reasons. 4chan, for how ephemeral it is, is a more proper forum than all of these
The problem in general is that all of these are too ephemeral and too subject to algorithm and has nothing made on them to keep a forum like discussion going
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@VBurner @kroner @triodug honestly, large forums are another kind of problems
Something Awful threads with their 90 fucking pages, or Neogaf's hell with the news section being a complete fucking nightmare you can't even discuss on. I remember investigating the forum at some point and holy shit. Some news about some Russian lady copyright strike everything with the word "Persona" in it and there was like 2000 messages, all a variation of "this lady sucks", it was truly fucking awful, I felt like I was going to go fucking nuts reading this
We need to have billions of small communities again, preferably self hosted
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@kroner @coolboymew @triodug are there any large forums that are still active besides KF and Tom's Hardware?
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I would absolutely love to make a more modern forum software that has optional federation capabilities but I am no good at frontend development and also federation is pretty complex to implement in code 😩
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@kroner @triodug I don't think forum needs federation. Do you have any idea why it would be good?
But otherwise, more open source forum software is always welcomed
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idk man, I was working on a project called Tinyboards for a while now but it's on hiatus for now since the frontend dev is busy with life and shit. (Using AGPL v3 so FOSS essentially)
I felt that giving communities an option to federate and increase resilience against cyber attacks would be cool (like in KF's situation for example) but federation is not really necessary for forums I guess.
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@kroner @triodug right, so instead of having a single attack vector, they might have to possibly attack a handful, or possibly, dozens of KF federated instances to put them all down?
Doesn't sound too bad actually, but that would be probably just useful to really big ones
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@coolboymew @kroner @triodug the problem is, almost everyone gravitates to centralized services for ease of use. If there was a resurgence in forums, I'd guarantee that a vast majority of them would be hosted on some service which lets you create your own semi-autonomous forum with some nocode tools that's then hosted on their site.
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How will you deal with the issue Zeronet had?
Someone tried to host an imageboard there skinned after 8chan and it literally became a cheese pizza dump.
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@VBurner @kroner @triodug yeah, probably, which sucks. Also the main problem is phone, tablets and apps. Using phone/tablets without apps is ass, and so many people are so used to them, sometimes only have these. This is a shit situation all around
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Yeah that was sort of the plan, harder to take down dozens of federated KF instances. I think Josh is looking to build his own shit though
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@coolboymew @kroner @triodug Xenforo forums work quite well in mobile browser I find
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@VBurner @kroner @triodug I just personally hate using my fucking phone for anything serious
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@VBurner @kroner @triodug phone is for when I'm outside, quick communication or getting memes on an open source facebook app. That's about it
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@coolboymew @kroner @triodug same, to be honest
granted I'm phoneposting right now
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@MischievousuTomatosu @VBurner @kroner @triodug there's already a "thread" function. nobody uses it
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@VBurner @kroner @coolboymew @triodug discord forums, the next product
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@Dozu @VBurner @kroner @triodug the thing is the net sucks BECAUSE of these fuckers
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@coolboymew @VBurner @kroner @triodug Making the internet harder for phone niggers should be a feature, not a bug.
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@coolboymew @kroner @triodug phone is for stealing company time on poast
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@VBurner @kroner @triodug yes, pretty much
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@PhenomX6 @coolboymew @kroner @triodug
Moderate the sites you host?
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@coolboymew @VBurner @kroner @triodug element also has it
no one uses it
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That would be a very good question. I imagine having a system where you can invite other instances to federate with your instance (and the option to defederate them) would be essential to this federated forum concept.
It would be fundamentally different from fedi where its a large stream of posts and individual instances choose their own rules and filters because enabling federation with all other instances in the network would be pure chaos for a forum
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@coolboymew @MischievousuTomatosu @kroner @triodug not just threads, Discord literally has a built in "forum". It only gets enabled if you have your server set to "community server" and it sucks. It basically just lets you have a big group of threads
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@VBurner @MischievousuTomatosu @kroner @triodug it's only useful to keep track of requests, but as a "forum", it sucks
Just like reddit is built to be a Q&A or just plain link aggregation, but for anything else it's awful
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Yeah Discord "forums" suck, it is basically just grouped threads with updoot features to make it feel more like Reddit
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@coolboymew @VBurner @kroner @triodug it's ok for discussions, but the upvotes system makes it easy for the majority (or the retarded) to take control of discussion
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@PhenomX6 @kroner @coolboymew @triodug 08chan/Milchan? If I remember correctly, you could blacklist user hashes to stop their posts from propagating. One could still make a new one and hop onto it, but that might be solvable with some hefty PoW solution requirement.
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@MischievousuTomatosu @VBurner @kroner @triodug yeah, the upvote is bad in most cases. the issue is that the tree format is bad. It's good for Q&A, as the tree format allows discussion of a an answer, but otherwise it's kinda mediocre
Also very made to be ephemeral like the rest
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@coolboymew @VBurner @kroner @triodug honestly, i like the tree format because forums can feel too cluttered. But yeah, upvotes are god awful. every subreddit likes to remind people that the system is to discourage replies that dont contribute anything to the discussion but everyone uses it as a "i like/hate this"
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@coolboymew @VBurner @kroner @triodug Yes which is why gatekeeping them should be a goal. The problem is that many people who SHOULD know better, who grew up on forums and the like, still migrated to centralized social media. And then proceed to bitch about it when the way out is clear.
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@coolboymew @kroner @triodug Fediverse functions like a federated forum for me and it has not been purely positive. Last night I saw the post below and going to Parker or your last comments, the thread wouldn't load, presumably because of the blocked/deleted comments. The inability to present clear threads due to blocks and defederations is a major negative. It's bad when it's intra-instance and it becomes even worse when it's inter-instance. Every post in a thread should load, regardless of blocks and defederations, to make it navigable. This is the single most important function of a forum. So now why would anyone want to federate a forum? The threads already suck in "FEDIVERSE", I can't wait to see what abomination a federated phpBB will be. Federation and distribution should not become the new "local, social, mobile" buzzwords.
poa.st/@coolboymew@shitposter.club/posts/AVG0RQApNYUpuCaa4O
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@marlin @kroner @triodug The thing is that the current fediverse is more like Twitter. It works better than Twitter and is a way better platform than it, but it's also a little tad too ephemeral, discussions are made to last or be easily findable later
I believe Discordia Eris was developing a forum software on fedi software that looked interesting. I mean, it probably wouldn't take a lot to transform pleroma into a more proper forum software
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@kroner @MischievousuTomatosu @VBurner @coolboymew @triodug Another problem with Dickscord is that it doesn't respect lurkers. I don't want to sign up for an account just to read past chat logs or forum posts. Archiving them is also difficult to do, and finding really old posts via search is a mess. At least with imageboard software, that's possible (although hosting lots of old archives is not easy). The old adage "LURK MOAR" is dying out because of this.
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@berkberkman @VBurner @kroner @coolboymew @triodug i'd agree but i also believe whoever has a service has a right to prevent any kind of people they dont like from using it
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@coolboymew @marlin @kroner @triodug >I believe Discordia Eris was developing a forum software on fedi software
I hope that project comes to full fruition and we'll have a modern replacement for vBulletin.
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@coolboymew @kroner @triodug Each instance can be a forum if the admins were to disable blocking and serialize threads. Currently the "threads" are trees, and they need to be flattened. So replies to anything other than to OP should be as quote posts. Which I don't think we can do currently. Another issue is that most posts are outright bullshit. Users treating it as an instant messenger (irc, aim, discord, w/e) produces lots of chaff. That's why every forum have rules against BS posts.
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