@coolboymew@thelioma@p@revvy tried to get my friends over to IRC, they just refuse to even try it. "hurr durr it's from 1990" and???? so is HTTP. IRC is the best option for group chats.
Also Discord servers ends up with 3 billions channels completed fracturing discussion and it's dumb
The beauty of a single IRC channel was that the community can discuss about whatever and some people that otherwise wouldn't join that kinda convo, joined. Now they can just ignore whole channels and it's dumb
@coolboymew Bro, I swear, normies have a literally magical ability to sniff out non-proprietary software like a hound so they can reflexively reject it.
"Um sweaty?? Is this some of that geek foss crap???? Ew. I want my iPhone"
@NEETzsche@thelioma@p@revvy@coolboymew >"Um sweaty?? Is this some of that geek foss crap???? Ew. I want my iPhone" I think the reason why this happens so often is because you know very well why free software is better for your privacy, security and well being, but normalfags haven't even begun to think about it yet. and the whole "ew foss" thing is a very recent coping mechanism, it was interesting to observe it develop among people
But I would say that people who can't wait for others to check and chat aren't compatible with IRC culture anyway. Sadly I think a lot of normies got brainfried by having everything being instantaneous.
@coolboymew@meso@thelioma@p@revvy Discord interface also just doesn't scales if like me you're the kind that easily joins a bunch of stuff (I've been in ~150 IRC channels for years).
@meso I've seen it for years but the last like five or so it's been beyond the pale. People hard refuse to use anything that doesn't exude corporateness, saying it looks "sketch" or "unprofessional" etc. The worst example of this I would say is social media and chat software. They will reduce the whole thing to the UI/UX. If you try to even broach the topic of federation it will not register at all. What they care about is if you can open up the image and then swipe left or right to go to the next one. Those kinds of things are the only issue normies will even consider when choosing software on their phone. And frankly, I'm not even sure it's really about that. I actually think it's really about not wanting to accept software written by Some Guy as legitimate. It must be overproduced bloatware by a big corporation or else it's gross and icky.
You have to know the mentality I'm talking about. I can't be the only crazy person who has noticed this
@coolboymew@meso@thelioma@p@revvy You could but I think IRC issue is more a cultural one than a technical one. Like almost no IRC user ever will set notifications beyond like a beep/indicator on highlights (~mentions).
@NEETzsche@meso@thelioma@p@revvy@coolboymew This is very, very true, but it can also be a good way to gatekeep. What's doubly funny about it is a lot of them use slapped-together shovelware in their workplaces, since companies are run by tech illiterates that only care about who's the low bid rather than what works best.
I think a lot of it's that, thanks to Jobs, what you have and what you use technologically has become a status symbol. IRC on the PC? Okay, Grandpa, better to use Tiktok on an iPhone.
@meso For the past six months or so, I've actually taken to using bridges. So I have a Matrix server, and it has a bridge to Telegram and another one to Discord. So if a user posts in any of these services they ultimately post in all of them. I view it as bringing the federation to them.
@NEETzsche@thelioma@p@revvy@coolboymew I'll just delete my Discord account in a few days, I don't care anymore. if they can't make a small sacrifice like switching to a less privacy invasive chat application why should I give a shit
@NEETzsche They're not looking to chat, they're tourists. Start thinking of normies as tourists. They visit a place, bring their culture with them, expect to be pampered, spend zero energy on discovering this new place they find themselves in and pollute everything around them with shit and plastics.
Then they go back home and complain about the people in the country they visited, only to come back again, to be able to tell themselves they had the ability to "go on holiday" and "break the routine" and feel like their lives are not totally, completely and utterly a boring routine they endure while they wait to "go on holiday".
These people want something that is 90% similar to what they already know and 10% different. They want something that they can tell people back home they did and get social credit. There is no social credit in going on IRC and chatting. Instagram has the photos, facebook has the likes, fedi currently has the hype.
The sad truth is, nobody wants to really chat, they want validation. IRC was good enough until super-validation came in the form of facebook et al.
I was on IRC back in the 90s, too. That was a shithole as well. At least it did its job well, and still does. It just solves a use-case that normies nowadays don't really want, if they're honest with themselves.
@corfiot There's some element of that for sure. But with modern federated services in particular I think it's about laziness. They don't want to really absorb why the Twitters and Facebooks of the world are censoring them. They don't want a structural solution. What they want is a different entity to have the bad hammer, preferably an entity that lets them say the things they want to say. It's not about a structural fix, and if you present a structural fix to them like federation, they don't care. They want hands to change
@corfiot I shilled fedi hard for years and it just didn't go anywhere. Nobody cared. If it wasn't corporate shovelware they didn't want it. So I think it's ideological at this point. It's not about some little UI problems because they will use piece of shit software as long as it's built by a big corporation. It's about the software being built by a big corporation. If it's not built by a big corporation it isn't legitimate. This is how they on ironically view it they just won't admit to it. It's kind of like how leftists are anti-white but they will never use that label on themselves and they will resist all efforts on your part to apply that label to them. It's the same thing here.
Interesting. This means that they just want what every human wants, a group to belong to, where they can pat eachother on the back and talk about things they mostly agree about. All mediums are perfect for that, IRC included. They just need someone to point them in the right direction. Tech has been taken over by big corps with an obvious benefit to keeping them uneducated and they use their grip on the masses to steer them to their next thing. Like meta working on a federated experiment, I read somewhere.
It's the clear fault of the tech sector that has allowed this crap to take place, lured by the money of the dotcom boom and silicon valley. We (I'm a techie, too) should have been advising people to get off these death platforms but we didn't. I, personally, as an IRC veteran kept telling people to get off facebook and make a website. To stop using whatsapp and instagram cause they're addiction personified. You may start to talk to family on FB but soon you're posting for likes. You may start to share your family photos with family on instagram but soon you're killing yourself over the imaginarily perfect life of your neighbor.
We let this shit happen and now that these tech giants are laying off people like there's no tomorrow for them (which is pretty close to true) we should all be feeling rather embarassed.
@NEETzsche@meso@thelioma@p@revvy@corfiot@coolboymew I want to add onto this that normies I know extend this behavior into other similar things. I will enjoy indie games made by one person or a small group of people, but they won't give much other than AAA games a second look. The only indie game some of them seem to like is Stardew Valley since it's popular enough I guess. They have that one possible exception that shows that something not approved by a big corporation can be higher quality, but never expand on it beyond that.
They also do it with TV shows, preferring whatever shit is on Disney+ or some other platform instead of anything else. They're the kind of people who say broad sweeping statements about corporations bad, but then do nothing but suck off big corporations.
Something less relevant but connected is how much emphasis I see certain people put on canon in franchises. It sucks what Disney did to Star Wars, but who gives a shit if Disney officially says x or y isn't canon. You can enjoy it anyway and ignore Disney.
@NEETzsche And they never ever once consider that once they create positions of power over people, that said power could change hands, to somebody they don't agree with. It could happen overnight.
@coolboymew@meso@thelioma@p@revvy >Also Discord servers ends up with 3 billions channels completed fracturing discussion and it's dumb You have no idea how much this pisses me off and it makes reading notifs from some servers a gigantic pain. Although, there are times it's necessary.
@Ace66062@meso@thelioma@p@revvy of course, it's necessary if you have a massive server, if you have a server having a very specific reason to exist and need all these channels
But there's no reasons to have this amount of shit on servers just for chatting
@NEETzsche Real. I tried explaining things like the fediverse and just distributed/federated technologies in general and now it's not difficult or complex and they just made a face. It's not that hard my dude. @meso@thelioma@p@revvy@coolboymew