Conversation

Notices

1. Eugen Rochko (gargron@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 10-Dec-2023 16:14:43 JST Eugen Rochko

   It’s hard not to say “AI” when everybody else does too, but technically calling it AI is buying into the marketing. There is no intelligence there, and it’s not going to become sentient. It’s just statistics, and the danger they pose is primarily through the false sense of skill or fitness for purpose that people ascribe to them.

   • Merijn 👨‍💻:mastodon: (mrbellek@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 10-Dec-2023 16:17:46 JST Merijn 👨‍💻:mastodon:

     in reply to

     @Gargron agreed. It's just LLMs, the professional nonsense generators

   • Sibrosan (sibrosan@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 10-Dec-2023 16:28:06 JST Sibrosan

     in reply to

     @Gargron

     Maybe it should be consistently written as "AI" instead of as AI.

   • Still Andy Really (squirlykat@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 10-Dec-2023 16:35:02 JST Still Andy Really

     in reply to

     @Gargron and sadly nobody will become more intelligent by using it

   • Dmitry Borodaenko (angdraug@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 10-Dec-2023 16:39:25 JST Dmitry Borodaenko

     in reply to

     @Gargron This false sense of skill or fitness for purposs comes from its incomprehensibility. Not because it's complex, although it is that, too. More because it is not designed to be comprehended. Only to be consumed.

     The danger of AI is not in that it's not intelligent, it is in that it's unintelligible.

   • Thomas Ricouard (dimillian@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 10-Dec-2023 16:41:23 JST Thomas Ricouard

     in reply to

     @Gargron Then we can agree that at this stage AI safety is another trick of marketing.

   • Ilgaz Öcal (ilgaz@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 10-Dec-2023 16:44:52 JST Ilgaz Öcal

     in reply to

     @Gargron As usual, rms is telling the truth and nobody listens ;-)

     "I can't foretell the future, but it is important to realize that ChatGPT is not artificial intelligence. It has no intelligence; it doesn't know anything and doesn't understand anything. It plays games with words to make plausible-sounding English text, but any statements made in it are liable to be false. It can't avoid that because it doesn't know what the words _mean_."

   • Kathy E. Gill 🇺🇦 (kegill@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 10-Dec-2023 17:04:00 JST Kathy E. Gill 🇺🇦

     in reply to

     • Emily M. Bender (she/her)

     @Gargron
     I have been calling it an algorithmic tool. I like @emilymbender suggestion to reference it as automation.

     #AI

   • Healthcarer (healthcarer@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 10-Dec-2023 17:16:32 JST Healthcarer

     in reply to

     @Gargron Whatever intelligence is. Advanced statistics?

   • Duncan Stephen (duncanstephen@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 10-Dec-2023 17:23:01 JST Duncan Stephen

     in reply to

     @Gargron The people using the phrase "AI" to describe their weak products are the same people who used the word "algorithm" for everything ten years ago.

   • MegatronicThronBanks (megatronicthronbanks@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 10-Dec-2023 17:49:37 JST MegatronicThronBanks

     in reply to

     @Gargron It's a hybrid of Symbolic AI and Neural Networks, which is where this was always going. This current weak adaptation is already destroying egos left right and centre, and it's going to improve. More feedback. Deeper abstraction. Inference.

   • Zoe Hendrickse (huffles@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 10-Dec-2023 18:12:46 JST Zoe Hendrickse

     in reply to

     @Gargron yeah. The true test for AI I believe is when they’re able to self learn and improve. So recessions of generations without human input can result in them being “better”.
     So far all the “AI” systems being pushed are known to become worse if fed their own output.

   • VoquiLeibbrandt (voquileibbrandt@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 10-Dec-2023 18:13:01 JST VoquiLeibbrandt

     in reply to

     @Gargron By now I dream of AI under the influence it may make it more human.. though I am not under influence by myself :)

   • Helles Sachsen (helles_sachsen@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 10-Dec-2023 18:14:24 JST Helles Sachsen

     in reply to

     @Gargron
     There is no common accepted definition of intelligence with which you can prove that a human around you is really intelligent and not just acting like?

   • Sumukha S (halfbloodprice@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 10-Dec-2023 18:16:36 JST Sumukha S

     in reply to

     @Gargron True. There is no original intelligence but data processed and delivered as information with a really good packaging.

   • Darren Moffat (darrenmoffat@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 10-Dec-2023 18:27:01 JST Darren Moffat

     in reply to

     @Gargron I prefer expanding AI as Adaptive Inference

   • gmsizemore (gmsizemore@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 10-Dec-2023 19:47:37 JST gmsizemore

     in reply to

     @Gargron And let me guess...your definition of "intelligence" specifically excludes what people are calling AI. But here's the thing...there is nothing called "intelligence." Find out what the independent-variables are that are relevant to the behavior we _call_ "intelligent" - even in nonhumans. And, actually, after the era of GOFAI ended, they did...sort of. AI people have ignored the natural science of behavior and it has hurt their efforts for AGI. Think "conditioning," people. Sheesh!

   • pc_roto (la_plaga@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 10-Dec-2023 19:49:27 JST pc_roto

     in reply to

     @Gargron i have been long thinking about this. Isn't our own brain electric pulses? Web are social animals, we learn imitating others, so, what is intelligence? Not trolling, i'd like to read you

   • crazy janey (hazydavy@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 10-Dec-2023 20:12:46 JST crazy janey

     in reply to

     @Gargron
     true
     +an unlimited computing capacity

   • Felix (felixcorreia@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 10-Dec-2023 20:13:30 JST Felix

     in reply to

     @Gargron

   • Chrisi79 (based79@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 10-Dec-2023 21:12:16 JST Chrisi79

     in reply to

     @Gargron Those systems behave intelligently even if they are not. They understand complex questions and complex code for example. Even if it is all statistics at end, the results are breathtaking. #AI #ChatGPT #OpenAI

   • glelkaitis (glelkaitis@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 10-Dec-2023 21:20:43 JST glelkaitis

     in reply to

     @Gargron "AI" is a testament to how we give the different meaning to the word as we see fit or fancy. Which "AI" is incapable of.

   • airjunglist (airjunglist@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 10-Dec-2023 21:26:31 JST airjunglist

     in reply to

     @Gargron this.

   • rticks (rticks@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 10-Dec-2023 21:49:43 JST rticks

     in reply to

     @Gargron

     I call them LLMs

     I call general intelligences to be Digital Intelligence because when eventually real they wont be Artificial

   • SmokeCrack.lol (smokecrackerc@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 10-Dec-2023 22:30:16 JST SmokeCrack.lol

     in reply to

     @Gargron It's tempting to call it AI, but I'd rather refer to it as 'sophisticated pattern recognition software.' Ultimately it's just a fancy algorithm, or a glorified data matcher.

   • Whyfullyblind (elizaalex@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 10-Dec-2023 22:37:41 JST Whyfullyblind

     in reply to

     @Gargron what i dont get is the implicit bias they build in the machine decision making that they don’t even see. Its bizarre and dangerous. Hubris.

   • Preslav Rachev (preslavrachev@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 10-Dec-2023 22:54:51 JST Preslav Rachev

     in reply to

     @Gargron wrote about that a few months ago: https://preslav.me/2023/05/22/i-believe-in-machine-learning-dont-believe-in-artificial-intelligence/

     The best we get to call it is Augmented (Human) Intelligence. Like those glasses that overlay things in front of your eyes, current AI is mostly a tool that does stuff for you, and it just happens to do it better than tools before it. New types of problems bring in new tools to solve them. But it’s just brute-forcing an answer in the end, I agree.

   • Kevin Jardine (kevinjardine@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 11-Dec-2023 00:40:02 JST Kevin Jardine

     in reply to

     @Gargron LLMs are more sophisticated versions of the old ELIZA chatbot. At least ELIZA's creator Joseph Weizenbaum did not attempt to overhype what it was.

     https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELIZA

   • javier_paredes (javier_paredes@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 11-Dec-2023 00:47:52 JST javier_paredes

     in reply to

     @Gargron
     Large Language Models are to intelligence what elevators are to teleportation.

   • Marcus (gerowen@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 11-Dec-2023 01:10:44 JST Marcus

     in reply to

     @Gargron I've been telling people this forever and they don't want to hear it. They're so enamored with the science fiction of "AI" that they don't understand companies will lie for money.

   • King of Red Lions (kingofredlions@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 11-Dec-2023 01:22:08 JST King of Red Lions

     in reply to

     @Gargron
     Are you saying the "revolutionary artificial intelligence technology" in this toothbrush is just marketing? That there isn't an Nvidia GPU inside analyzing my teeth in realtime? https://oralb.com/en-us/products/electric-toothbrushes/genius-x-limited-electronic-toothbrush-white/

   • Ampelios (pelielios@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 11-Dec-2023 01:56:05 JST Ampelios

     in reply to

     @Gargron Yes. Anyone who has ever complained about autocorrect should know better than to think "AI" is anything but more of the same.

   • N0rman (n0rman@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 11-Dec-2023 03:02:39 JST N0rman

     in reply to

     @Gargron GIGO. It's all about the training.

   • Matthew Merkovich :clippy: (mattmerk@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 11-Dec-2023 03:22:52 JST Matthew Merkovich :clippy:

     in reply to

     @Gargron Which is why I only refer to it as "large language models" or less often "machine learning," when it applies to VFX work in film and TV.

   • Adlangx (lightninhopkins@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 11-Dec-2023 03:58:16 JST Adlangx

     in reply to

     @Gargron Plagiarism machine works.

   • Pine (pinecone@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 11-Dec-2023 04:35:11 JST Pine

     in reply to

     @Gargron Oh, the irony. Aren't you just parroting Emily Bender? A chatbot could have said this. How can we know that what you say is more than just your cognitive statistics?

     1. There is intelligence in current LLM based AI. A different sort, but still intelligence. Language competence without comprehension.

     2. Most of what people say is pretty much at the level of parroting.

     3. What you say is half true, half misleading.

     Several people on this thread have mentioned this sort of idea.

   • Son of a Sailor (sonofasailor@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 11-Dec-2023 04:41:08 JST Son of a Sailor

     in reply to

     @Gargron I wish these bots would stop being personified. Statistical databases don't have personalities.

   • cultdev (cultdev@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 11-Dec-2023 05:51:53 JST cultdev

     in reply to

     @Gargron probably the single keenest and clearest articulation of this point that i’ve seen yet. no wonder you’re the mastodon guy

   • David W. Jones (dancingtreefrog@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 11-Dec-2023 07:37:38 JST David W. Jones

     in reply to

     • Ether Diver

     @Gargron
     I always read "AI" in the news as "Artificial Idiocy." Although the terms "Augmented Idiocy" or "Amplified Idiocy" just came to mind.
     @etherdiver

   • Terci (terci@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 11-Dec-2023 08:01:57 JST Terci

     in reply to

     @Gargron aptly put

   • RustyBertrand (rustybertrand@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 11-Dec-2023 08:23:43 JST RustyBertrand

     in reply to

     @Gargron

   • arjankroonen (arjankroonen@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 11-Dec-2023 15:53:34 JST arjankroonen

     in reply to

     @Gargron But to be fair, it is doing a better job at pretending to be intelligent than tons of humans voting nowadays… so I’m not sure I really really care ablut the broad interpretation of “I” being used.

   • ブロギングライフ (blogginglife@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 11-Dec-2023 19:08:31 JST ブロギングライフ

     in reply to

     @Gargron Completely agreed.

   • Paulo (pspssp@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 11-Dec-2023 20:17:19 JST Paulo

     in reply to

     @Gargron always thought a better term would be "extreme fitting models"

   • Rafi C (glider85@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 11-Dec-2023 22:48:54 JST Rafi C

     in reply to

     @Gargron I just went to a major US marketing conference in Sept, every single vendor was touting the 'AI-fication' of their products. It's ridiculous because we are customers, we know that they've just rebranded the ML stuff they were already doing!