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Pawlicker (purpcat@clubcyberia.co)'s status on Sunday, 05-Nov-2023 02:51:22 JST 
Pawlicker
@theorytoe it's commonly associated with the trans community but it really is another breakfast question - Machismo likes this.
- Machismo repeated this.
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Morghur the Sealgave (morghur@seal.cafe)'s status on Sunday, 05-Nov-2023 02:51:37 JST 
Morghur the Sealgave
>what if you are meant to play with a character you don't identify as
>They get stumped
This. This so much. They cannot refrain from projecting themselves onto the character rather than the character being a medium to tell a story or to entertain an audience. How the fuck can their minds be so broken? -
Machismo (zerglingman@freespeechextremist.com)'s status on Sunday, 05-Nov-2023 02:53:20 JST 
Machismo
@Morghur @theorytoe @PurpCat There's another option though: I play as girls in games when given the choice because I like pretending to be a girl. Keyword: Pretending. Because that's what games are good for, playing pretend, doing things that are impossible in real life. -
Morghur the Sealgave (morghur@seal.cafe)'s status on Sunday, 05-Nov-2023 02:55:12 JST
Morghur the Sealgave
Same. After all, if i'm going to be playing for 9 hours i better have an interesting character to look at. And if it's not interesting, at least to be appealing.
That's why western games are such an eyesore. Attractive women don't exist in themMachismo likes this. -
Machismo (zerglingman@freespeechextremist.com)'s status on Sunday, 05-Nov-2023 02:59:54 JST
Machismo
@Morghur @PurpCat @theorytoe I mean if you wanna perv on cute girls just go look at porn. I'm not gonna try to stroke it while killing zombies or anything like that, they're conflicting interests. Alicesoft gets a pass for actually making good games that happen to also have sex.
But in any case, that's different. Also it's assuming 3rd-person cameras, which are usually pretty pathetic at letting you actually see what you want to see. -
Morghur the Sealgave (morghur@seal.cafe)'s status on Sunday, 05-Nov-2023 03:04:58 JST
Morghur the Sealgave
No, i mean something that is aesthetically pleasing to look at. After all, men like to look at women. This goes back to the ugly women in western games, which is a staple of our times. Women have a shitty aesthetic in those games where they are square faced roidmonsters, overly obese eyesores or many other ways in which a woman might not be pleasing to look at. This is essentially what i mean by that. Character design these days when it comes to female characters is the same, and it annoys me
And yeah, in most games 3rd person cameras are shit. But that doesn't stop me from trying to do armor fashion.Machismo likes this. -
Machismo (zerglingman@freespeechextremist.com)'s status on Sunday, 05-Nov-2023 03:06:06 JST
Machismo
@Morghur @PurpCat @theorytoe Armour fashion to dunk on lv1s. -
Morghur the Sealgave (morghur@seal.cafe)'s status on Sunday, 05-Nov-2023 03:09:12 JST
Morghur the Sealgave
You know it when in games min maxing armor is secondary to aesthetics.
Why be resilient when you can look dashing? Even real life knights knew thisMachismo likes this. -
Machismo (zerglingman@freespeechextremist.com)'s status on Sunday, 05-Nov-2023 03:09:52 JST
Machismo
@Morghur @PurpCat @theorytoe I still want to make an MMO where NPCs will outright refuse armoured characters entry to their shops. Maybe guards refuse certain arms, etc. -
Kirino Kousaka (kirino@seal.cafe)'s status on Sunday, 05-Nov-2023 03:14:56 JST 
Kirino Kousaka
Holy shit, did he crack the code?
I mean, it makes so much fucking sense if troons simply can’t distinguish from playing a character to thinking of themselves as being that character. It literally solves fuckin’ everything.
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Morghur the Sealgave (morghur@seal.cafe)'s status on Sunday, 05-Nov-2023 03:17:08 JST
Morghur the Sealgave
I mean, if i made an RPG in certain parts, depending on yoru race, attire or materials of your gear, you will be refused service or even entrance to a city.
Mostly because of race. Racism gives flavour to a fantasy world beyond the "All elves must die". But yea, that idea is pretty damn good. Autists would be all over itMachismo repeated this. -
Machismo (zerglingman@freespeechextremist.com)'s status on Sunday, 05-Nov-2023 03:21:16 JST
Machismo
@Morghur @PurpCat @theorytoe Show up to the king with bloodstains from your last fight? You'd better be the hero of the realm already or you're spending the night in a cell lol.
I think only arms should affect city entrance, since you have to change somewhere, and outside is generally not the right place. (I have played an MMO that actually took time to equip items... It was probably DDO, it was like 5s for heavy armour or something, presumably just to stop some hotswap exploit.)
I wonder how hard it would be to rig it up so that NPCs would gossip about you only if you *needlessly* wander about in armour. Like if you're just rushing in to buy out the entire health potion stock, nobody would say anything at any point, but if you come out of your house of a morning wearing armour and go shopping, then go home before leaving to quest, that should garner attention. -
Suzu :miku_happy: (suzu@varishangout.net)'s status on Sunday, 05-Nov-2023 03:21:19 JST 
Suzu :miku_happy:
@Morghur @theorytoe @PurpCat @Zerglingman The Elder Scrolls 2: Daggerfall had this.
I don't think it would fly nowadays, the game, studio and everyone involved would be defamed and slandered to oblivion. -
Senator_Armstrong (senator_armstrong@seal.cafe)'s status on Sunday, 05-Nov-2023 03:26:44 JST 
Senator_Armstrong
@PurpCat @theorytoe the breakfast people are out of control :uninsane: -
Morghur the Sealgave (morghur@seal.cafe)'s status on Sunday, 05-Nov-2023 03:35:13 JST
Morghur the Sealgave
Damn, that reminds me a bit to Pathologic and the reputation system they had. Some actions would increase it (like killing muggers, helping the sick, reparing fountains) and if your reputation drops people will refuse to talk to you and shopkeepers will kick you out of their shops. If it drops too much, people will try to beat you up.
That sort of thing i love. The fact that stuff you do has consequences and also NPCs gossiping on your appearance/demeanor. Like the PC getting drunk on the regular or even not bathing regularlyMachismo likes this. -
Machismo (zerglingman@freespeechextremist.com)'s status on Sunday, 05-Nov-2023 03:43:18 JST
Machismo
@Morghur @PurpCat @theorytoe I think a reputation system should actually be reputation, not just karma with social colouring. People shouldn't magically know that you killed that dog, it should only affect your reputation if someone observes it, and only with that person; unless/until they choose to tell others.
For efficiency/performance you could probably approximate knowledge across factions/clans and other relevant groups, but a knowledge system is, IMO, a pre-requisite for a reputation system.
I don't think a knowledge system is particularly difficult, you can already attach moral/karma/etc. adjustments to particular actions easily enough, so just do that but with NPC proximity (or presence/awareness in their own subsystems) so it only affects some subset of the population, and it's basically done - well, that's the reputation portion, at least, the knowledge system would just record the actions themselves (which is better for reputation to depend upon because then different parties can have different opinions on different actions allowing reputation adjustments to spread naturally; if party A hates dogs they're more likely to tell people that you did it if they already like you, etc.).
More interesting is a *rumour* system, so that you can disguise your actions even to direct observers. I think it, too, is relatively possible, it's a question of how to make it not feel artificial/forced. -
menherahair (menherahair@eientei.org)'s status on Sunday, 05-Nov-2023 03:43:38 JST 
menherahair
@Morghur @theorytoe @PurpCat @Zerglingman
> I mean, if i made an RPG in certain parts, depending on yoru race, attire or materials of your gear, you will be refused service or even entrance to a city.
literally Arcanum, that game has racism and "reaction" stat.
My favorite memory is having to kiss ass every time I enter a shop as a brutish-looking half-orc to even be allowed to shop, until at one point shopkeepers started recognizing me as a known skilled technologist and commenting on that instead. It's only the tech-aligned ones though. -
Machismo (zerglingman@freespeechextremist.com)'s status on Sunday, 05-Nov-2023 03:43:52 JST
Machismo
@menherahair @theorytoe @PurpCat @Morghur Very cool. -
Machismo (zerglingman@freespeechextremist.com)'s status on Sunday, 05-Nov-2023 03:46:07 JST
Machismo
@theorytoe @PurpCat @Morghur (Also all of this stuff will probably go in Ascendant.) -
Morghur the Sealgave (morghur@seal.cafe)'s status on Sunday, 05-Nov-2023 04:06:25 JST
Morghur the Sealgave
Damn, that's amazing Machismo likes this. -
eisai (eisai@freespeechextremist.com)'s status on Sunday, 05-Nov-2023 15:42:13 JST 
eisai
@Zerglingman @Morghur @PurpCat @theorytoe There was once a moment several years ago, when I was deep into The Long Dark (aka Siberia simulator). The game (outside the story mode) is basically surviving alone, starting on a random map, then travelling from there to other maps. You are surviving alone, there’s no other humans to interact with. Basically, the remarks of your character is all you ever hear except animals, birds, sticks cracking under your feet and then in the stove, howling of the wind and rattling of the windows. One time after some hundreds of hours I decided to play a male (why am I always playing a woman, anyway?) And this made me quickly realise, that I DON’T LIKE MALE *HUFF HUFF* *UUUGH!* DIRECTLY INTO MY EARS. Something felt really wrong and like a gay exhausted dude was following me.
It was close to the feeling that I got at my first real job (in IT), where I was surrounded by people twice my age, they were almost no women, and those that were, were far from pretty. After the uni, where there often were girls around, it felt like I was sent to an island prison.
So I’ve come to realise, that a normal male just needs a sense of womanhood around (as in soothing, admirable), otherwise it just doesn’t feel right. Being locked in a sausage company, even if it’s your peers, is depressing. A video game just provides means to bring that “womanhood” to your eyes and ears.
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eisai (eisai@freespeechextremist.com)'s status on Sunday, 05-Nov-2023 15:44:58 JST
eisai
@Zerglingman @Morghur @PurpCat @theorytoe Speaking of playing pretend… This really depends on how well the character is written. I remember playing the first Bloodrayne. While the main girl was super attractive, and her lines were showing the character, the routine gameplay dulled the effect of “playing a dhampire killer girl”. With Bloodrayne 2 the immersion was even less.
Lara from Tomb Raider Legend was a good example of when a game is a kind of glass cube with hazardous materials, and the character is rubber gloves built-in in that cube. It runs, it shoots, it pulls levers – I wish it could run faster, though – but it’s not a character to play.
Well, maybe it’s not right to expect character done elaborately from a shooter or a puzzle game, – there are RPG for that. But I can’t name a single player RPG, that was that immersive. If only an MMORPG. I’m going to do a 180° turn and remember Hitman: Blood Money. While the Agent 47’s story is brief and happens somewhere on the background (until the last mission, that is short), throughout the game you acquire this certain way of thinking, through which the character crawls under your skin. It’s your character now. I can remember The Hammer of Thursagan mission in Wesnoth, where you lead dwarfs, there it was immersive through the reinterpretation of the game actions as the part of the story: one half of the story you get from the dialogues, and another half – from what you play through. Wesnoth has it done well: the gameplay isn’t detached far from the story and at certain points of completing a map the dialogues return, which really helps the immersion. Playing as Bill in Left4Dead had that too: when you’re limping on low health and play as a stern veteran Grandpa, like a real stubborn yet caring old man, and who is voiced good, this really aligns. I specifically went to folder with games to remember more, but all of them were immersive in the instrumental way, rather than through the character’s skin. Now that I think of it, this is surprising to myself, that I can’t name a female character (except my MMO one), that I would find immersive, even though if I would play a new game, I’d rather create a female character first. Guess it’s still about the air.
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ninja2.pngMachismo likes this. -
eisai (eisai@freespeechextremist.com)'s status on Sunday, 05-Nov-2023 15:46:34 JST
eisai
@Zerglingman @Morghur @PurpCat @theorytoe A ⋅ U ⋅ T ⋅ I ⋅ S ⋅ M when merchants are afraid for their life, they put bulletproof glass, magic barriers and so on. Though as a quest to get a deal with an excessively wary merchant this might do. I remember one like that in a book from The Witcher series w
1684833675.jpegMachismo likes this. -
Tyler (tyler@1611.social)'s status on Sunday, 05-Nov-2023 15:47:50 JST 
Tyler
wow I haven't played that game for a long long time, didn't know it was still in development.
I caught a fish weighing over 11 pounds though!!Machismo likes this. -
eisai (eisai@freespeechextremist.com)'s status on Sunday, 05-Nov-2023 19:48:50 JST
eisai
@tyler @Zerglingman @theorytoe @PurpCat @Morghur
Dpyhv3jUwAcZoMPQF.jpegMachismo likes this.
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