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1. idea_enjoyer (idea_enjoyer@poa.st)'s status on Sunday, 27-Aug-2023 04:02:59 JST idea_enjoyer

   in reply to

   • :bible_wh::confederateflag:RMIV⛎:sonnenrad::yay:
   • ❄️:padoru: SantaSnekFriend :padoru:❄️
   @SuperSnekFriend @RMIV Debates about election are so 🤓
   • ❄️:padoru: SantaSnekFriend :padoru:❄️ (supersnekfriend@poa.st)'s status on Sunday, 27-Aug-2023 04:02:59 JST ❄️:padoru: SantaSnekFriend :padoru:❄️

     in reply to

     • :bible_wh::confederateflag:RMIV⛎:sonnenrad::yay:
     @idea_enjoyer @RMIV Yes, I am autistic for and about Jesus Christ and His religion. :HazeSmug:
     Gyaru Enjoyer likes this.
   • ❄️:padoru: SantaSnekFriend :padoru:❄️ (supersnekfriend@poa.st)'s status on Sunday, 27-Aug-2023 04:03:00 JST ❄️:padoru: SantaSnekFriend :padoru:❄️

     in reply to

     • :bible_wh::confederateflag:RMIV⛎:sonnenrad::yay:
     @RMIV As most people would define it as absolute and total, yes. How are defining "free" in "free will"?
   • :bible_wh::confederateflag:RMIV⛎:sonnenrad::yay: (rmiv@poa.st)'s status on Sunday, 27-Aug-2023 04:03:00 JST :bible_wh::confederateflag:RMIV⛎:sonnenrad::yay:

     in reply to

     • ❄️:padoru: SantaSnekFriend :padoru:❄️
     @SuperSnekFriend >How are you defining "free"
     
     there appears to be no possible circumnavigable route via semantics in confronting your assertion.
   • ❄️:padoru: SantaSnekFriend :padoru:❄️ (supersnekfriend@poa.st)'s status on Sunday, 27-Aug-2023 04:03:00 JST ❄️:padoru: SantaSnekFriend :padoru:❄️

     in reply to

     • :bible_wh::confederateflag:RMIV⛎:sonnenrad::yay:
     @RMIV What do you mean you can't answer my question? I deny that there are only two options to this debate: absolute and total freedom of will (libertarian freedom) and compulsion (hard determinism). It shouldn't be hard to tell me how you are defining freedom and if you believe one extreme, the other extreme, or some third position.
   • ❄️:padoru: SantaSnekFriend :padoru:❄️ (supersnekfriend@poa.st)'s status on Sunday, 27-Aug-2023 04:03:01 JST ❄️:padoru: SantaSnekFriend :padoru:❄️

     in reply to

     • :bible_wh::confederateflag:RMIV⛎:sonnenrad::yay:
     @RMIV This is open theism, which a heresy, and not something I would continue to endorse if I were you.
     
     The Bible makes it clear that God is eternally conscious of His omniscience.
     
     "But, as it is written, 'What no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man imagined, what God has prepared for those who love him'--
     these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God.
     For who knows a person's thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God." (1 Cor. 2:9-11) The Greek word for "searches", ἐραυνάω, is present tense and active. This God actively and eternal knows everything about all things, including Himself, who is infinite.
     
     As the Lord never changes (Malachi 3:6, James 1:17), so this truth of His nature does not change.
     
     Man and everything possible fact about him, including the will and man's choices, are known actively and eternally by God:
     
     "If we had forgotten the name of our God or spread out our hands to a foreign god,
     would not God discover this? For he knows the secrets of the heart. (Psalm 44:20-21)
     
     "Sheol and Abaddon lie open before the LORD; how much more the hearts of the children of man!" (Proverbs 15:11)
     
     "Every way of a man is right in his own eyes, but the LORD weighs the heart." (Prov. 21:2)
     
     "For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
     And no creature is hidden from his sight, but all are naked and exposed to the eyes of him to whom we must give account." (Hebrews 4:12-13)
     
     God does not resign His knowledge of the will of man or each man's destiny, simply to give man absolute freedom. It's impossible, by nature and by God's own words. And it would be wrong for the Lord to do so.
   • :bible_wh::confederateflag:RMIV⛎:sonnenrad::yay: (rmiv@poa.st)'s status on Sunday, 27-Aug-2023 04:03:01 JST :bible_wh::confederateflag:RMIV⛎:sonnenrad::yay:

     in reply to

     • ❄️:padoru: SantaSnekFriend :padoru:❄️

     @SuperSnekFriend then there is no free will.

   • :bible_wh::confederateflag:RMIV⛎:sonnenrad::yay: (rmiv@poa.st)'s status on Sunday, 27-Aug-2023 04:03:02 JST :bible_wh::confederateflag:RMIV⛎:sonnenrad::yay:

     in reply to

     • ❄️:padoru: SantaSnekFriend :padoru:❄️
     • Griffith

     @Griffith @SuperSnekFriend i have an answer to this conundrum tho i am loathe to qualify it as the answer.

     the only reconciliation i can discover at the the intersection of His omniscience and our free will is that He does not in fact know what we will do beforehand. if we partake of His divine Logos, to our indeterminate degree, that we are allowed to act as co-creators of this reality with Him through our actions then He may, in His infinite wisdom, know all things we might do while not knowing or choosing to not foresee that which we will choose. and this perhaps He does for His own inscrutable puropses.

     for it seems to me that being omnipotent would include what Vox Day calls tantiscience, or the ability to omnipotently not know things at His omniscient discretion.

   • ❄️:padoru: SantaSnekFriend :padoru:❄️ (supersnekfriend@poa.st)'s status on Sunday, 27-Aug-2023 04:03:03 JST ❄️:padoru: SantaSnekFriend :padoru:❄️

     in reply to

     • Griffith
     @Griffith >The premise of Calvinism is free will is fake
     To say we believe free will is fake is a bit of a strawman. We Calvinists believe man does not possess a complete and utter free will, but man still has a will and it's sufficiently free to be a moral agent.
     >some Christians still insist free will exists
     I still love my Arminian brothers, even if they are wrong. :02smug:
     >If you accept an all powerful God it’s impossible to disprove.
     Yes, the Bible's explicit statements on God's sovereignty conflicts with the claims that man's will is completely and totally free.
     
     >How God washes his hands of sin is also impossible to prove
     But the Lord did not and does not compel people to sin. That their will is limited and under the influence of various people and forces does not exculpate their choosing to sin when they can choose.
     
     To portray God as a mere puppet master being the will compelling people's choice is another false straw man that does not charitable describe the position of Reformed theologians.
   • Griffith (griffith@5dollah.click)'s status on Sunday, 27-Aug-2023 04:03:03 JST Griffith

     in reply to

     • ❄️:padoru: SantaSnekFriend :padoru:❄️
     @SuperSnekFriend I just can’t wrap my mind around free will. Omniscience PLUS omnipotence to me gives the universe a kind of 3D shape, where our decisions are baked into the cake, and God can view the whole thing as an object. That’s an uncharitable view, but I can’t square having free will with God knowing everything I’m going to do. Even accepting or rejecting Christ, he knew before I was born what would happen.
     There’s no human dignity without free will, we do become objects without it, but also, it seems impossible to fit in without chipping at God’s omniscience or omnipotence, which is ultimately the argument Nugger has made and Bowsac’s has made. So it seems like I’m not the only one.
     I don’t really know. It’s a tough question.
   • Griffith (griffith@5dollah.click)'s status on Sunday, 27-Aug-2023 04:03:04 JST Griffith
     The premise of Calvinism is free will is fake and some Christians still insist free will exists and God gave it to everyone.
     It’s pretty airtight. If you accept an all powerful God it’s impossible to disprove. How God washes his hands of sin is also impossible to prove.