Conversation

Notices

1. Tobias Bernard (tbernard@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 20-Aug-2023 16:24:46 JST Tobias Bernard

   • Jonas Dreßler
   • Florian Müllner

   The activities indicator has landed 🚀

   Thanks to @verdre for the prototype extension, Georges for implementing it in a clean way, and @fmuellner for timely reviews!

   https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-shell/-/merge_requests/2902

   • Aral Balkan (aral@mastodon.ar.al)'s status on Sunday, 20-Aug-2023 16:24:46 JST Aral Balkan

     in reply to

     • Jonas Dreßler
     • Florian Müllner

     @tbernard @verdre @fmuellner Hey Tobias, in that screenshot, what app are you and how can you find out just by looking at the screen?

     (I can’t help but think this is a huge step backwards in terms of usability. Multiple workspaces is a power feature. Knowing which app you’re in, especially when apps themselves don’t even tell you, is basic usability. I simply don’t understanding the rationale behind this design choice.)

     #landmarks #design

   • Tobias Bernard (tbernard@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 20-Aug-2023 23:07:11 JST Tobias Bernard

     in reply to

     • Aral Balkan

     @aral What we've found across a number of research exercises over the years is that:

     - Basically nobody uses the app menu, either as a menu or as a focus indicator
     - New people are often confused by the app menu, thinking that it's a taskbar/app switcher
     - The app menu makes it harder for people to find Activities, because it's right next to it and visually more prominent

     Try it for a few days, most people very quickly forget the app menu ever existed :)

   • Aral Balkan (aral@mastodon.ar.al)'s status on Sunday, 20-Aug-2023 23:07:11 JST Aral Balkan

     in reply to

     @tbernard I understand you’ve done some studies but can you please answer my question: How can you tell which app you’re in by looking at the screen in GNOME?

     You see how that’s a fundamental landmark, that’s currently missing, right?

   • Tobias Bernard (tbernard@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 21-Aug-2023 00:12:36 JST Tobias Bernard

     in reply to

     • Aral Balkan

     @aral I opened the apps, why would I be confused about what app I'm in?

     If this was a fundamental landmark people would be using it as such, which is not what we've found in practice...

   • Aral Balkan (aral@mastodon.ar.al)'s status on Monday, 21-Aug-2023 00:12:36 JST Aral Balkan

     in reply to

     @tbernard Because you opened them this morning and now you’re back from lunch. Because the three browsers and two editors you use all look almost identical. For the same reason when you switch to an app, the accessibility system speaks its name. Because having the person using your system know where they are at all times (“you are here”) is such a cornerstone of interaction design that I’m surprised I actually have to make the case for it.

   • Jan D (simulo@hci.social)'s status on Monday, 21-Aug-2023 00:17:37 JST Jan D

     in reply to

     • Aral Balkan
     • Jonas Dreßler
     • Florian Müllner

     @aral @tbernard @verdre @fmuellner

     I think the decision to remove app name and icon is separate from the new activities/workspaces indicator.

     For knowing what app I am in: In MS Windows e.g. there is no separate indicator either and it seems to work by the "whatever is on top"-heuristic plus subtle hints like lower contrast on inactive windows.

   • Aral Balkan (aral@mastodon.ar.al)'s status on Monday, 21-Aug-2023 00:17:37 JST Aral Balkan

     in reply to

     • Jan D
     • Jonas Dreßler
     • Florian Müllner

     @simulo @tbernard @verdre @fmuellner I’m not talking about knowing which window is active. I’m taking about knowing which app that window belongs to.

   • carnagemode (carnage_mode@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 21-Aug-2023 01:24:20 JST carnagemode

     in reply to

     • Aral Balkan
     • Jan D
     • Jonas Dreßler
     • Florian Müllner

     @aral @simulo @tbernard @verdre @fmuellner Press super and look at the active app I guess

   • Aral Balkan (aral@mastodon.ar.al)'s status on Monday, 21-Aug-2023 01:24:20 JST Aral Balkan

     in reply to

     • Jan D
     • Jonas Dreßler
     • Florian Müllner
     • carnagemode

     @carnage_mode Nope, app names are not even presented there, just the icon. Not that that would solve the issue I’m raising anyway.

     @simulo @tbernard @verdre @fmuellner

   • Aral Balkan (aral@mastodon.ar.al)'s status on Monday, 21-Aug-2023 17:56:02 JST Aral Balkan

     in reply to

     For anyone following this thread, if you use #GNOME and want the name of the app you’re currently in to be shown to you, you can use the Just Perfection GNOME extension (thank goodness for extensions) to do so.

     It makes absolutely no sense to me that there is no way to look at your screen and know which app you’re in in GNOME. The ‘you are here’ landmark is so foundational that you’d fail Interaction Design 101 were you to forget it.

     #design #interactionDesign #landmarks #usability #youAreHere

   • Aral Balkan (aral@mastodon.ar.al)'s status on Monday, 21-Aug-2023 17:57:01 JST Aral Balkan

     in reply to

     PS. Here’s the link to the Just Perfection #GNOME extension:

     https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/3843/just-perfection/

   • Aral Balkan (aral@mastodon.ar.al)'s status on Monday, 21-Aug-2023 20:03:19 JST Aral Balkan

     in reply to

     • Sonny

     @sonny @tbernard Which app is that?

     Is that GNOME calculator, Sonny Calc 2000, Aral’s Awesome Number Machine, or something else? (I have all of them installed and running so I’d love to know which one I’m in.)

     (I’m not asking which window is active. I’m asking which app am I in.)

   • Sonny (sonny@floss.social)'s status on Monday, 21-Aug-2023 20:03:20 JST Sonny

     in reply to

     • Aral Balkan

     @aral @tbernard

     Only the focused window matters for "you are here".

     There are already plenty of hints:
     • Window is maximized
     • Title/toolbars not dimmed
     • You just opened the window
     • Backdrop for modal/transient
     • Darker shadow
     • In-app cursor / focus indicator
     • Window focus notification

     See the screenshot, looks pretty obvious to me. I seem to recall the design team working on making it even more obvious for 3rd party apps.