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1. Jeffrey Phillips (11thjeff@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 06-Aug-2023 12:00:42 JST Jeffrey Phillips

   • Eugen Rochko

   I find myself using #mastodon less and less, because nobody sees my posts, and following has slowed to a crawl.
   Meanwhile I get dozens upon dozens of #Threads notifications every day and in a few weeks my account there has thousands of followers. @Gargron, we need to talk about what this says about algorithmic feed placement...

   • Eugen Rochko (gargron@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 06-Aug-2023 12:00:34 JST Eugen Rochko

     in reply to

     • Grant 🇺🇦ArmUkraine🇺🇦

     @11thJeff @Grant_M And?

   • Grant 🇺🇦ArmUkraine🇺🇦 (grant_m@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 06-Aug-2023 12:00:41 JST Grant 🇺🇦ArmUkraine🇺🇦

     in reply to

     @11thJeff Fascist billionaire algorithms are available with threads/twitler. Mastodon was built specifically to give us refuge from those algorithms.

   • Jeffrey Phillips (11thjeff@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 06-Aug-2023 12:00:41 JST Jeffrey Phillips

     in reply to

     • Grant 🇺🇦ArmUkraine🇺🇦

     @Grant_M 202 followers

   • Grant 🇺🇦ArmUkraine🇺🇦 (grant_m@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 06-Aug-2023 12:00:42 JST Grant 🇺🇦ArmUkraine🇺🇦

     in reply to

     @11thJeff I see this post! But I disagree that Mastodon should have algorithms. It's about curating one's own via hashtags and follows.

   • Jeffrey Phillips (11thjeff@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 06-Aug-2023 12:00:42 JST Jeffrey Phillips

     in reply to

     • Grant 🇺🇦ArmUkraine🇺🇦

     @Grant_M I like a platform that functions out of the box. Seems like all that other stuff limits the uptake.

   • Jeffrey Phillips (11thjeff@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 06-Aug-2023 12:09:16 JST Jeffrey Phillips

     in reply to

     • Eugen Rochko
     • Grant 🇺🇦ArmUkraine🇺🇦

     @Gargron @Grant_M People don't really go to social media to be ignored and buried in the chron-feed.

     They go to engage, and grow, and connect with each other, and share. Threads made that easier in 6 weeks than Mastodon in 6 months. And that might be worth examining.

   • Eugen Rochko (gargron@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 06-Aug-2023 12:12:39 JST Eugen Rochko

     in reply to

     • Grant 🇺🇦ArmUkraine🇺🇦

     @11thJeff @Grant_M If you want to get on the explore page, opt-in to "Suggest account to others" under Edit profile, and post something interesting.

   • Jeffrey Phillips (11thjeff@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 06-Aug-2023 12:14:12 JST Jeffrey Phillips

     in reply to

     • Eugen Rochko
     • Grant 🇺🇦ArmUkraine🇺🇦

     @Gargron @Grant_M One of the first things I did when I joined. So...

   • Eugen Rochko (gargron@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 06-Aug-2023 12:28:16 JST Eugen Rochko

     in reply to

     • Grant 🇺🇦ArmUkraine🇺🇦

     @11thJeff @Grant_M If Threads works better for you, good for you. But I doubt that algorithms that would promote unengaging content would help the platform overall.

   • Grant 🇺🇦ArmUkraine🇺🇦 (grant_m@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 06-Aug-2023 12:28:20 JST Grant 🇺🇦ArmUkraine🇺🇦

     in reply to

     • Eugen Rochko

     @11thJeff @Gargron I don't use his crap, therefor I don't participate in his 'win'

   • Jeffrey Phillips (11thjeff@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 06-Aug-2023 12:28:20 JST Jeffrey Phillips

     in reply to

     • Eugen Rochko
     • Grant 🇺🇦ArmUkraine🇺🇦

     @Grant_M @Gargron I mean...I think that's a very Mastodon attitude to take, and explains why the numbers are comparatively low. There was a big chance when Twitter busted to change that, but on the current trajectory this will be self-filtering. You may have your island.

   • Jeffrey Phillips (11thjeff@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 06-Aug-2023 12:28:21 JST Jeffrey Phillips

     in reply to

     • Eugen Rochko
     • Grant 🇺🇦ArmUkraine🇺🇦

     @Grant_M @Gargron Have you tried Threads?

   • Grant 🇺🇦ArmUkraine🇺🇦 (grant_m@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 06-Aug-2023 12:28:21 JST Grant 🇺🇦ArmUkraine🇺🇦

     in reply to

     • Eugen Rochko

     @11thJeff @Gargron Zuckerberg is a criminal imo.

   • Jeffrey Phillips (11thjeff@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 06-Aug-2023 12:28:21 JST Jeffrey Phillips

     in reply to

     • Eugen Rochko
     • Grant 🇺🇦ArmUkraine🇺🇦

     @Grant_M @Gargron Well, then why let him win?

   • Jeffrey Phillips (11thjeff@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 06-Aug-2023 12:28:22 JST Jeffrey Phillips

     in reply to

     • Eugen Rochko
     • Grant 🇺🇦ArmUkraine🇺🇦

     @Grant_M @Gargron That's my whole point. I'm posting the same stuff. Threads moves content. Mastodon kinda buries it, in my testing.

   • Grant 🇺🇦ArmUkraine🇺🇦 (grant_m@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 06-Aug-2023 12:28:22 JST Grant 🇺🇦ArmUkraine🇺🇦

     in reply to

     • Eugen Rochko

     @11thJeff @Gargron Good stuff gets boosted and shared.

   • Grant 🇺🇦ArmUkraine🇺🇦 (grant_m@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 06-Aug-2023 12:28:23 JST Grant 🇺🇦ArmUkraine🇺🇦

     in reply to

     • Eugen Rochko

     @11thJeff @Gargron was it interesting?

   • Jeffrey Phillips (11thjeff@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 06-Aug-2023 12:32:27 JST Jeffrey Phillips

     in reply to

     • Eugen Rochko
     • Grant 🇺🇦ArmUkraine🇺🇦

     @Gargron @Grant_M Agreed. You should probably be promoting engaging content. Instead of just...leaving it up to users. It seems like that's what Threads does, and it snowballs from there. Asynchronous discovery of hot content is a powerful thing (and I think Threads is holding back compared to old Twitter, tbh)

   • Jeffrey Phillips (11thjeff@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 06-Aug-2023 12:42:23 JST Jeffrey Phillips

     in reply to

     • Eugen Rochko
     • Grant 🇺🇦ArmUkraine🇺🇦
     • feinzer

     @feinzer @Gargron @Grant_M To me that argument can be deconstructed by analogy to Google. People are always trying to game Google's algorithm. And they're changing it constantly (and kind of failing in recent years, imho). But can you imagine Google without an algorithm?

   • Jeffrey Phillips (11thjeff@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 06-Aug-2023 12:42:30 JST Jeffrey Phillips

     in reply to

     • Eugen Rochko
     • Grant 🇺🇦ArmUkraine🇺🇦
     • feinzer

     @feinzer @Gargron @Grant_M I literally follow everyone I reply to or replies to me.
     I do the same thing on Threads. Except it actually has an algorithm that seems to connect me with more and more of those people I end up liking and responding to and following.

   • feinzer (feinzer@akko.airis.dev)'s status on Sunday, 06-Aug-2023 12:42:30 JST feinzer

     in reply to

     • Eugen Rochko
     • Grant 🇺🇦ArmUkraine🇺🇦
     @11thJeff the issue with having an algorithm is that it eventually becomes exploitable. The social platform then shifts from being social to being a billboard for brands and products.
     
     This make people stop interacting for the sake of socializing and start doing so for getting views and followers. This is not healthy.
     
     Yes, you can have healthy people eventually realizing this and not falling for it while still using the platform, but those are people that had to realize the problem and overcome it. The average person will fall for this unhealthy usage and it even becomes their entire lifestyle.
     
     This is why having no algorithm is, in my opinion, better. Because there is no algorithm to exploit, no trick to get popular, no secret to advertisement; it's just people.
     
     @Gargron @Grant_M
   • feinzer (feinzer@akko.airis.dev)'s status on Sunday, 06-Aug-2023 12:42:34 JST feinzer

     in reply to

     • Eugen Rochko
     • Grant 🇺🇦ArmUkraine🇺🇦
     @11thJeff @Gargron @Grant_M brands go to social media to do that
     
     People go to social media to interact and just have fun. What are you going to reply to me now? My followers count? At least I'm having fun and so does the people that I follow and the people that follow me
   • Eugen Rochko (gargron@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 06-Aug-2023 12:42:54 JST Eugen Rochko

     in reply to

     • Grant 🇺🇦ArmUkraine🇺🇦
     • feinzer

     @11thJeff @feinzer @Grant_M That's not an example in your favour. Google has become worse and worse at finding stuff you're actually looking for in favour of trying to suggest you stuff it thinks you might have meant instead. Yeah, I can't imagine it without PageRank, but I'd prefer if it respected what I typed.

   • Jeffrey Phillips (11thjeff@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 06-Aug-2023 12:44:39 JST Jeffrey Phillips

     in reply to

     • Eugen Rochko
     • Grant 🇺🇦ArmUkraine🇺🇦
     • feinzer

     @Gargron @feinzer @Grant_M
     The decline of Google is a bit of a separate discussion (and one I think we'd both find interesting). In short, I would blame the switch to machine learning over classic statistical pagerank. THey're given up crawling and indexing, and now it's more of an advanced auto-complete with some favored harbors.