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1. Tio (tio@social.trom.tf)'s status on Monday, 31-Jul-2023 05:28:05 JST Tio

   • Nick @ The Linux Experiment
   Let me Hug your Window videos.trom.tf/w/a5dvz3R3DUR6d…
   
   We've recently had a discussion over here social.trom.tf/display/dbc8dc4… about how Thunderbird's update is in fact not that "cool", but less functional, and how the theming and window managing is starting to become more broken on Linux because many developers seem to not think of their apps in terms of usability and respecting the user's choices and their system.
   
   @thelinuxEXP here's why not respecting the user choices via their system (theming, fonts, window manager), is a bad idea.
   • Tio (tio@social.trom.tf)'s status on Monday, 31-Jul-2023 05:28:03 JST Tio

     in reply to

     • Nick @ The Linux Experiment
     @thelinuxEXP You are not a "power user" if all you want is to select a particular theme and expect it to work with at least most of the system. Or a font size...
     
     All "regular" users use Window Managers. XFCE has one, Gnome has another. Maybe the wording is confusing, but what I meant is the system that draws the windows graphically. And that is not respected by apps like Thunderbird.
     
     I fail to see where's a better design and coherency, else I would applaud it too.
     
     The fact is: if you need to customize, you still can and you know how.
     Well can you tell me how to fix Thunderbird? I have no clue 😀
     
     I think you brush aside too quickly the trend of fragmentation in the Linux world, with Gnome caring only about Gnome, thunderbird about their app, and so forth. Destroying in the process useful features that are system wide. I do not understand how you do not see system theming as important, or font choosing, or HUD-like features. They are useful for everyone.
     
     You know probably most users do not use Workspaces, but probably you do. How would you feel if Gnome, or app developers, would make it nearly impossible to use their apps or systems with workspaces?
     
     Anyway, I thought you could pay a bit more attention to things like usability since from what I remember from some of your videos, you say that you work/have worked within that domain.
   • Nick @ The Linux Experiment (thelinuxexp@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 31-Jul-2023 05:28:04 JST Nick @ The Linux Experiment

     in reply to

     @tio It’s always the same argument: power users feel they’re losing access to customization, the rest of the world applauds more coherency and better design.

     I still stand in the corner of regular users who don’t theme and don’t use window managers, and thus will have 100% better experience than before the update.

     The fact is: if you need to customize, you still can and you know how. If you don’t care, your experience is simpler. It’s a win in my book.

   • Nick @ The Linux Experiment (thelinuxexp@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 31-Jul-2023 05:28:40 JST Nick @ The Linux Experiment

     in reply to

     @tio The system wide features should be implemented by your system. It’s not up to the app to support your window manager, it’s up to your window manager to add a title bar to apps that don’t use one.

     It’s up to your global menu to detect menus from an app, there’s no API on Linux to do that, (there are hacks). It ‘s up to your theme to theme your apps, since there’s no API to theme apps on Linux, whatever the desktop you use. Pin this on the desktop or the distro, not the app.