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1. Walkman (methos@noagendasocial.com)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Jul-2023 20:18:01 JST Walkman

   “Learn to Plumber”? https://m.slashdot.org/story/416898

   • ≠ (amerika@noagendasocial.com)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Jul-2023 20:18:01 JST ≠

     in reply to

     @methos

     Great to see Slashdot links on here. If AI destroys the H-1B racket, we all win... it's not like the H-1Bs write good code anyway.

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   • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Jul-2023 20:18:01 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

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     @amerika @methos no but they write bad code fast
   • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Jul-2023 20:19:48 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

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     @amerika @methos then there was vault 7 which didn't help either.
   • ≠ (amerika@noagendasocial.com)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Jul-2023 20:19:49 JST ≠

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     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

     @thatguyoverthere @methos

     1990s: Let's outsource our coding!
     2000s: Why are we getting hacked every other day?

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   • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Jul-2023 20:24:49 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

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     @amerika @methos sure. It was collected before it was leaked. The problem is the collection not the leaking (at least in my opinion). It's like knowing that a door lock vendor has created a door lock that can be opened with a secret handshake, and then not informing the public because it makes no knock raids easier. It's one thing for a business to do that. It's another for your government.
   • ≠ (amerika@noagendasocial.com)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Jul-2023 20:24:50 JST ≠

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     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

     @thatguyoverthere @methos

     Companies and agencies had been compiling hacking tools for years at that point. There were plenty of fairly well-known exploits that no one wanted to fix.

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   • ≠ (amerika@noagendasocial.com)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Jul-2023 23:53:40 JST ≠

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     @thatguyoverthere @methos

     The worst extreme of this are the Stingrays and analogues.

     I am less worried about spies and more about general incompetence.

     Spies look for things relevant to them. They have the Patriot Act to make all that legal, and that is where the problem lies.

     But general incompetence means nothing works well and we all waste our lives on fiddling with garbage like in the third world.

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   • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Jul-2023 23:53:40 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

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     @amerika @methos PATRIOT Act is a problem, but even with the extra allowances they still seem to have a hard time following the law. Incompetence is a problem.
   • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Jul-2023 23:57:06 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

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     @amerika @methos the act lets them "go dark" anyway. There should be consequences for people responsible when they overreach.
   • ≠ (amerika@noagendasocial.com)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Jul-2023 23:57:07 JST ≠

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     @thatguyoverthere @methos

     The law basically suspends normal rules for probable cause.

     Get rid of that, and you force them to go dark in order to spy on us.

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   • ≠ (amerika@noagendasocial.com)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Jul-2023 23:59:33 JST ≠

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     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

     @thatguyoverthere @methos

     "Go dark" means act outside of the law.

     With the Patriot Act, they are plausibly within the (vague) law.

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   • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Jul-2023 23:59:33 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

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     @amerika @methos ok fine if that's how we're using the phrase. They still do operate outside of the law. That's why Assange is in prison.
   • ≠ (amerika@noagendasocial.com)'s status on Thursday, 20-Jul-2023 00:18:30 JST ≠

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     @thatguyoverthere @methos

     If I stole a Hollywood movie and published it on my site, do you think I would go to jail?

     Assange is a hero for making data available, but he was colluding to steal it from the USG, so that falls under normal law.

     The international wrangling is similar to that of the UK kid who hacked all those celebrity accounts.

     I don't like it, but the law is as it is.

   • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 20-Jul-2023 00:18:30 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

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     @amerika @methos If you stole surveillance video from a movie set where a murder took place and was covered up and released it to the press, I do not think you would be in jail.
     
     They also had discussions on executing him without a trial so even if you think he should be in jail it is still an example of government at minimum discussing working outside of the law.
   • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 20-Jul-2023 01:01:24 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

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     @amerika @methos I am trying to work with your analogy that doesn't strictly correlate. He didn't steal anything. He published leaked documents. He had a discussion with one leaker about breaking the law, but it wasn't even related to how anything was leaked at the end of the day. Publishing leaked documents is not a crime. He even tried to work with the government to protect still sensitive information, but they refused to work with him.
     
     The point still remains that murder was an option being considered to silence him at one point.
   • ≠ (amerika@noagendasocial.com)'s status on Thursday, 20-Jul-2023 01:01:25 JST ≠

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     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

     @thatguyoverthere @methos

     If you had evidence of a clear crime, you would probably end up in jail, as would whoever covered it up. In particular, wrecking the chain of evidence would cause some problems.

     That's not what happened here. He published a lot of secrets, most of which did not relate to crimes, and clearly did not own the material and colluded to get it.

     This is why he is in jail.

   • ≠ (amerika@noagendasocial.com)'s status on Thursday, 20-Jul-2023 01:05:46 JST ≠

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     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

     @thatguyoverthere @methos

     If you have evidence of a crime, you turn it over to the police.

     If you are publishing leaked documents, you have to consider that those who own them still have a claim against you.

   • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 20-Jul-2023 01:05:46 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

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     @amerika @methos when the police committed the crime, you need to go over their head. There are so many examples of leaks that did not result in a world wide man hunt for the first journalist to the story.
   • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 20-Jul-2023 01:06:37 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

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     @amerika @methos he's not even American 🤣
   • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 20-Jul-2023 01:17:28 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

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     • Nick
     @Nou @amerika @methos fair, but those laws apply to citizens and people within our borders afaik. He didn't even breach a computer system. If he was acting on behalf of another state it would be regular every day spycraft. But because he published it and Americans read it somehow none of that matters. Manning wasn't charged with espionage in spite of being the one who actually took documents and gave them to a person without clearance.
   • Nick (nou@poa.st)'s status on Thursday, 20-Jul-2023 01:17:29 JST Nick

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     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
     @thatguyoverthere @amerika @methos >Publishing leaked documents is not a crime
     This is not strictly true.
     Technically espionage is defined as mishandling of classified information. When the person doing the mishandling doesn't have a clearance prosecution gets kind of dicey, but it's something the Feds can and, on occasion, do prosecute.
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   • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 20-Jul-2023 01:19:57 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

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     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
     • Nick
     @Nou @amerika @methos the guy who tried selling nuclear secrets to what he thought was foreign governments also was not charged with espionage even though he was talking to spooks the whole time and they have the whole conversation.
   • Nick (nou@poa.st)'s status on Thursday, 20-Jul-2023 01:20:54 JST Nick

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     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
     @thatguyoverthere @amerika @methos And wait... Manning wasn't charged with espionage? Are you sure?
     What was he charged with?
   • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 20-Jul-2023 01:20:54 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

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     • Nick
     @Nou @amerika @methos
   • Nick (nou@poa.st)'s status on Thursday, 20-Jul-2023 01:21:06 JST Nick

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     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
     @thatguyoverthere @amerika @methos Oh, I didn't know the specifics of what you were talking about because defederation.
     Just thought it was a helpful point to point out.
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   • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 20-Jul-2023 01:21:28 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

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     • Nick
     @Nou @amerika @methos defederation :gayfrog:
   • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 20-Jul-2023 01:22:09 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

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     • Caek Islove 🍰 ❤️
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     • Nick
     @caekislove @amerika @methos @Nou nah we paid for his transition while in prison before the pardon right?
   • Caek Islove 🍰 ❤️ (caekislove@gleasonator.com)'s status on Thursday, 20-Jul-2023 01:22:10 JST Caek Islove 🍰 ❤️

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     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
     • Nick
     @Nou @thatguyoverthere @amerika @methos Being a faggot
   • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 20-Jul-2023 01:22:52 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

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     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
     • Nick
     @Nou @amerika @methos I guess 18 USC 793 is part of the espionage act
   • Caek Islove 🍰 ❤️ (caekislove@gleasonator.com)'s status on Thursday, 20-Jul-2023 01:23:09 JST Caek Islove 🍰 ❤️

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     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
     • Nick
     @thatguyoverthere @amerika @methos @Nou Probably. That sounds just about as fucked up as I'd expect.
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   • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 20-Jul-2023 01:24:40 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

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     • Nick
     @Nou @amerika @methos yeah I see that now... the one below it too. but is being part of the espionage act the same thing as being charged with espionage? I don't really know.
   • Nick (nou@poa.st)'s status on Thursday, 20-Jul-2023 01:24:41 JST Nick

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     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
     @thatguyoverthere @amerika @methos
   • Nick (nou@poa.st)'s status on Thursday, 20-Jul-2023 01:26:58 JST Nick

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     • Caek Islove 🍰 ❤️
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     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
     @thatguyoverthere @caekislove @amerika @methos No.
     At least, if I remember correctly while he decided he was a troon while locked up, he didn't start any of the """""treatment""""" until he got out.
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   • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 20-Jul-2023 01:28:09 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

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     • Caek Islove 🍰 ❤️
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     • Nick
     @Nou @caekislove @amerika @methos The history is a tricky one to remember because people refer to him as her before his transition when writing about it which makes everything extra confusing.
   • Nick (nou@poa.st)'s status on Thursday, 20-Jul-2023 01:28:37 JST Nick

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     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
     @thatguyoverthere @amerika @methos Yes.
     Well... kind of.
     All military members while active are charged under the UCMJ. And since military tribunal charges are federal, separate civilian federal charges would be double jeopardy.
     So a 134 for violation of the espionage act is de facto the same as a charge for espionage.
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   • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 20-Jul-2023 01:28:49 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

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     • Nick
     @Nou @amerika @methos makes sense
   • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 20-Jul-2023 01:29:54 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

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     • Caek Islove 🍰 ❤️
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     • Nick
     @Nou @caekislove @amerika @methos another great point!
   • Nick (nou@poa.st)'s status on Thursday, 20-Jul-2023 01:29:55 JST Nick

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     • Caek Islove 🍰 ❤️
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     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
     @thatguyoverthere @caekislove @amerika @methos No.
     Not people.
     Journos.
   • Nick (nou@poa.st)'s status on Thursday, 20-Jul-2023 01:32:25 JST Nick

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     • Caek Islove 🍰 ❤️
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     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
     @thatguyoverthere @caekislove @amerika @methos Obviously.
     I made it.
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   • ≠ (amerika@noagendasocial.com)'s status on Thursday, 20-Jul-2023 01:44:04 JST ≠

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     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

     @thatguyoverthere @methos

     When the police commit the crime, you move up the hierarchy until you find someone responsible.

     If you do that first, you rarely face consequences.

   • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 20-Jul-2023 01:44:04 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

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     @amerika @methos the rung above executive branch is supposed to be "The People" which is why publishing it seems fine. He tried talking to them first.
   • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 20-Jul-2023 01:45:00 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

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     @amerika @methos anyway, the Assange thing is a distraction from the point anyway, the point is that even with the PATRIOT Act the government still has a tendency to work in ways that do not conform to the laws that they are supposed to be following.
   • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 20-Jul-2023 01:46:25 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

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     @amerika @methos with Assange, it's a lot of over reach in the law, but there are signs that they have also attempted or contemplated operating outside of the law (even with such a public case).
   • ≠ (amerika@noagendasocial.com)'s status on Thursday, 20-Jul-2023 02:00:47 JST ≠

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     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

     @thatguyoverthere @methos

     Was the executive branch directly involved? There's a chain of command at NSA, DIA, CIA, DOJ, etc.

   • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 20-Jul-2023 02:00:47 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

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     @amerika @methos those are all members of the executive branch. He tried talking to the white house iirc.
   • ≠ (amerika@noagendasocial.com)'s status on Thursday, 20-Jul-2023 02:01:06 JST ≠

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     @thatguyoverthere @methos

     I agree here: the big point is that government wants/need surveillance, so we have to avoid Patriot Act style laws.

     Those make it easy and therefore, it WILL be abused. They have a legal shield then.

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   • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 20-Jul-2023 02:01:10 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

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     @amerika @methos agreed
   • ≠ (amerika@noagendasocial.com)'s status on Thursday, 20-Jul-2023 02:08:23 JST ≠

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     @thatguyoverthere @methos

     I think history will find that the Patriot Act was really bad news (as most things done in desperate panic times are, like COVID-19) and:

     1. The start of the #LateStageDemocracy death spiral
     2. A sign that diversity required constant monitoring to reduce terrorist events

     Eventually, it will be used as the Alien and Sedition Acts were... to suppress opposition to war.

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   • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 20-Jul-2023 02:11:55 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

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     @amerika @methos depends on who's writing the books I guess. I'm not even sure there is any tangible benefit wrt reduction of terrorist events, but the story told will likely not agree with me. I am not even convinced the US government was not complicit in the events leading up to the PATRIOT Act. I think history has glossed over government atrocities before and it will happen again. I hope the future generations can get a more accurate picture of the past, but if existing historical records are any indication I'd say it's likely to be a mix of facts and fiction.