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1. Jojo (jojothegoodperson@freespeechextremist.com)'s status on Friday, 07-Jul-2023 01:53:47 JST Jojo

   in reply to

   • Cyber Yuki
   • pistolero :thispersondoesnotexist:
   • Louis
   • Ramin Honary
   @yuki2501 @louis @ramin_hal9001
   @p
   This
   • Cyber Yuki (yuki2501@hackers.town)'s status on Friday, 07-Jul-2023 01:53:48 JST Cyber Yuki

     in reply to

     • Louis
     • Ramin Honary

     @louis @ramin_hal9001 @freemo@qoto.org

     Whatever Meta will do, the Fediverse will not go down because of Meta's decisions but because of the actions of its admins and users.

     Alright that's a lot of bullshit. I don't know why you think we're gullible enough to believe Facebook is well intentioned, but you're already discussing a plan and completely blaming the potential destruction of the fediverse on our own actions.

     You're giving us no choice. Either we show Facebook and they'll haber mercy upon us, or well be destroyed. You're using convoluted reasoning and carefully chosen words to give us an ultimatum.

     So let me ask the question again:

     Why should we TRUST facebook? How can we be assured it won't create a rug pull? Can we be guaranteed that it won't abuse its power once it gets enough hold of the market?

     No, we cannot. As a corporation, if Facebook wants to do something bad, it will. It has already done so.

     And even if everyone signed a contract, what would be the worst penalty for Facebook? A few million dollars lost in fines and a slap on the hand.

     If Facebook cannot be held accountable, it cannot be trusted.

     Besides, why are you implying that joining Facebook has any advantages at all for us?

     You got it all wrong; for you, success means instances with large number of users, when large instances precisely are the most problematic.

     Not to mention that if Facebook sponsors instances, it's effectively controlling them. We don't want a centralized silo using a federated infrastructure. The point of the fediverse is not to cover the world, it's to have a space safe from fascism and corporate power.

     Allowing Facebook in the fediverse is throwing the fediverse's raison d'etre into the garbage.

     So you and your sockpuppets can fuck off. You're not welcome here.

   • Louis (louis@emacs.ch)'s status on Friday, 07-Jul-2023 01:53:49 JST Louis

     in reply to

     • 🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱
     • Ramin Honary

     @ramin_hal9001 You make some strong arguments here. It's great to see you laying out your reasoning in detail and with passion. :heart: That's the spirit.

     What I have learned, however, is that Meta will only federate with select larger instances from the beginning. There will be contracts which also provide for financial compensation for the instance owners. Meta positions itself as a "savior", because especially the big instances have a very strong financial pressure. Users take it for granted that someone else is paying for everything.

     In these contracts, Meta also specifies the rules regarding the moderation. Instances will have the option of allowing ads from Meta or not (with the benefit of additional compensation).

     Smaller instances will have the possibility to register for a federation with Meta in a second step, but there will be no financial compensation and Meta decides if they will grant access based on their reputation.

     In summary, there will be instances with the "plus Facebook" feature and those that do not belong to the illustrious circle. No #FediPact will be able to change that (btw. these are the same people that will silence and defederate from you if you don't play by "their" rules).

     At the turn of the year there was a proposal from @freemo, where he proposed the creation of a "United Federation of Instances" (https://ufoi.org - ssl cert is expired). However, people associated the idea with one person and made fun of it because of his "reputation". If we had such a foundation today we would be in a much stronger position against Meta. It is the human condition not to be able to think outside our own bias.

     Whatever Meta will do, the Fediverse will not go down because of Meta's decisions but because of the actions of its admins and users. When I follow the daily arguments on #MastoAdmin or (#)Fediblock, I quickly realize where the journey is headed. Silcening and public shaming instead of mutual respect and cooperaton is the motto.

   • Ramin Honary (ramin_hal9001@emacs.ch)'s status on Friday, 07-Jul-2023 01:53:51 JST Ramin Honary

     in reply to
     Why #FediPact is important (3/3) Simply said: a battle between a federation and a corporation.

     #Mastodon (and other #ActivityPub #fediverse services) needs to see themselves the way the #Meta corporation sees Mastodon: as a competitor and a bitter enemy. Mastodon and the larger fediverse needs to strive to make itself a better and separate from #Facebook. The federation should not be providing free content that improves the quality of their competitor who is trying to shut them down.

     Therefore all #fediverse instance admins (#Mastodon #Kbin #Lemmy #Pixelfed #PeerTube) should agree to #FediPact . Federating with Facebook entails nothing but risk, and provides no actual reward. Federating with Facebook will not grow the fediverse, it will destroy it, slowly but surely.

     Maybe, if hell freezes over, Meta might agree to pay admins of Mastodon instances for federating with Facebook. Those who provide the service of quality content should be compensated, after all. But that is a separate discussion entirely. Let's just say that any Mastodon admin that allows Facebook to federate with their instance without compensation, especially for the increase in web traffic to their server accompanied by the increased bandwidth costs, is poorly informed fool who is happy to be exploited by a massive corporation.

     (3/3 end)

     #Mastodon #Kbin #Lemmy #Pixelfed #PeerTube #Fediverse #Facebook #Meta #FediPact

   • Ramin Honary (ramin_hal9001@emacs.ch)'s status on Friday, 07-Jul-2023 01:53:52 JST Ramin Honary

     in reply to
     Why #FediPact is important (3/3) Simply said: a battle between a federation and a corporation.

     #Mastodon (and other #ActivityPub #fediverse services) needs to see themselves the way the #Meta corporation sees Mastodon: as a competitor and a bitter enemy. Mastodon and the larger fediverse needs to strive to make itself a better and separate from #Facebook. The federation should not be providing free content that improves the quality of their competitor who is trying to shut them down.

     Therefore all #fediverse instance admins (#Mastodon #Kbin #Lemmy #Pixelfed #PeerTube) should agree to #FediPact . Federating with Facebook entails nothing but risk, and provides no actual reward. Federating with Facebook will not grow the fediverse, it will destroy it, slowly but surely.

     Maybe, if hell freezes over**, Meta might agree to pay admins of Mastodon instances for federating with Facebook. Those who provide the service of quality content should be compensated, after all. But that is a separate discussion entirely. Let's just say that any Mastodon admin that allows Facebook to federate with their instance without compensation, especially for the increase in web traffic to their server accompanied by the increased bandwidth costs, is poorly informed fool who is happy to be exploited by a massive corporation.

     **EDIT (2023-06-23 16:10) Someone I trust has explained to me that Meta will in fact pay some instances for federating with Facebook. In that case, I favor an evidence-based approach to deciding whether to defederate with the instances "blessed" by Facebook.

     (3/3 end)

     #Mastodon #Kbin #Lemmy #Pixelfed #PeerTube #Fediverse #Facebook #Meta #FediPact

   • Ramin Honary (ramin_hal9001@emacs.ch)'s status on Friday, 07-Jul-2023 01:53:53 JST Ramin Honary
     Why #FediPact is important (1/3) The #fediverse should all agree to never federate with #Facebook

     #FediPact is an agreement between all current Mastodon instances to never federate with #Facebook, in response to the #Meta corporation's recent announcement that they will be making Facebook compatible with the #ActivityPub standard, and thus allow Mastodon and other ActivityPub services to federate with Facebook.

     Most of the arguments I hear in favor of federating with Facebook come down to trying to expand the reach of the fediverse and Mastodon in particular. If people on Facebook can interact with Mastodon, this can only grow the fediverse and make it more relevant. This is a failure to recognize the real threat of Meta.

     This pro-Facebook sentiment is usually accompanied by accusations of #FediPact supporters being irrationally dogmatic, overly paranoid about advertising and other for-profit ventures, overly concerned with privacy, and/or ignorant of how technology works. The attitude here is "Don't be so paranoid, just try it and you will see the benefits." This is a straw-man argument against #FediPact.

     (1/3 continued)

     #Mastodon #Kbin #Lemmy #Pixelfed #PeerTube #Fediverse #Facebook #Meta #FediPact