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1. Tovarish_Pedal (tovarish_pedal@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 12:46:58 JST Tovarish_Pedal

   • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks
   • :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad:
   @Eiregoat @WashedOutGundamPilot But it wouldn't be though. Like, the only side of a US vs China or a US vs Russia conflict, that would break after one engagement goes wrong, is the US.
   
   Russia lost 20+ MILLION people in WW2 and won, and remained a superpower after that conflict.
   
   China? Well, honestly, I don't think China will ever be a great military power. That might sound weird given it's economy. But that's not what makes great militaries. They have never been a military power, they have no culture or history of it, and I think they don't have it in them as a race.
   
   BUT, they can, and do use their economic and diplomatic might as a weapon.
   • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks likes this.
   • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks (washedoutgundampilot@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 12:48:07 JST Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks

     in reply to

     • :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad:

     @Tovarish_Pedal @Eiregoat Despite all their faults and shortcomings, the chinese are a people. It’s like a game of family feud played between a gaggle of strangers rounded up from the street downtown playing against an 8-person family

     Even if they lose, they’ll be chinese

   • Tovarish_Pedal (tovarish_pedal@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 13:04:57 JST Tovarish_Pedal

     in reply to

     • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks
     • :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad:
     @Eiregoat @WashedOutGundamPilot Right, there would be no such "all or nothing" engagement though. Like, neither side(maybe) is stupid enough to throw away their Navy like that.
     
     But again, when a Chinese carrier sinks, their people won't riot.
   • :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 13:04:57 JST :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad:

     in reply to

     • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks
     > Like, neither side(maybe) is stupid enough to throw away their Navy like that.
     
     Well... if it comes to a war they're already committed to doing so. The US can't afford to allow east asian chip manufacturing to fall entirely into the hands of the PRC and the PRC wants Taiwan.
     
     If the PRC moves on Taiwan then it must use it's navy. If the US wants to stop them then they must use theirs. Anything short of that means neither side is actually committed to a war and it's just fooling around and saber rattling.
     
     > But again, when a Chinese carrier sinks, their people won't riot.
     
     Why not? They're already rioting.
     
     For that matter why would muricans riot? They just sat through decades of wars based on provable lies.
   • Tovarish_Pedal (tovarish_pedal@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 13:04:57 JST Tovarish_Pedal

     in reply to

     • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks
     • :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad:
     @Eiregoat @WashedOutGundamPilot China does NOT want Taiwan by force.
     
     And last I heard, the US is moving towards planting self-destruct protocols into those Taiwanese plants, so that tells you how confident they are in their ability to defend Taiwan should China go for it.
     
     Look, let's not pretend as if Chinese society is anywhere near as fractured and fucked as the US one. Are they a perfect monolith? No. Are they FAR more unified and capable of public projects and mobilization than the US? Fuck yes.
     
     Look I don't think this conversation will go anywhere, in my experience, western dissidents have an absurdly overblown image of US military capability.
     
     My pet theory is that this is a product of constantly losing, so the system that bests you seems invincible.
     
     And honestly because to admit otherwise, would raise a lot of questions.
     Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks likes this.
   • :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 13:04:58 JST :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad:

     in reply to

     • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks
     It's not a question of morale though. If the bulk of chinas navy were defeated at sea it wouldn't matter how much the chinese government still had the will to fight, they wouldn't have the means to do so.
     
     Equally, if the US loses a major engagement at sea it doesn't matter how weak or strong it's morale is, it'd be spread too thin to do anything with it either way.