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1. Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks (washedoutgundampilot@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 03:33:51 JST Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks

   Interesting convo w/ big boss-type boomer man recently, where he took issue with that dude training chinks to fly on carriers. He’s old cold-war mil, so he was taken aback when I said I totally supported dudes going out and getting what they want, regardless of whether it empowers “our” enemy.

   It’s hard to describe, I guess, unless you’ve grown up like we have. Grown up in public schools, being told that every one of your inherent strengths and talents was a threat to your obvious lessers, that your ancestors’ home, hewn from the virgin wilderness was actually rightful clay of disinterested strangers hundreds of miles away.

   • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks (washedoutgundampilot@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 03:35:59 JST Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks

     in reply to

     America broke the faith with ME. All my life it’s spent its efforts parasitizing me without even the window dressing offered to the older generations. “Oh, but the roads! Taxes pay for the phone lines! For air traffic!”

     Sorry, glownigger supreme, but I haven’t heard that since my boomer teachers passed it on in 3rd grade. That was the promise THEY got from uncle sam. What did we get? ABSOLUTE HEDONISTIC FREEDOM! A promise of economic destruction and everlasting shame upon anyone who besmirches the sacred honor and dignity of our precious pederasts, niggers and buttfuckers united. THAT is what the government offers me for my fealty.

   • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks (washedoutgundampilot@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 03:37:20 JST Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks

     in reply to

     Sure thing, bub. Who even cares about chinese military power anyway? How in the hell is is MY problem? You know you’ll retreat from the South China Sea the second they start muscling you around, you’ll try to save face with a bunch of boss-bitch bluster across the media pulpit, but they’ll get what they want anyways.

     They got you by the balls….er….the roast beef, and you already ceded a third of the globe to them. Just let them play army man in peace, dummy.

   • Dr. Rupert, Doctor of Shitpoasting Studies (rupertvonripp@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 03:37:23 JST Dr. Rupert, Doctor of Shitpoasting Studies

     in reply to
     @WashedOutGundamPilot Boomers don't understand the thing they think we should be loyal to is dead and buried.
     Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks likes this.
   • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks (washedoutgundampilot@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 03:37:58 JST Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks

     in reply to

     • Dr. Rupert, Doctor of Shitpoasting Studies

     @RupertvonRipp “Sonny! You can’t do that! Think of how hurt the board of directors at mcdonalds’ will feel!!!! Think about the Q1 walmart investor report!!!!!!”

   • :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 05:01:39 JST :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad:

     in reply to
     > You know you’ll retreat from the South China Sea the second they start muscling you around
     
     Maybe, maybe not. The feds are a retarded giant but they're still a giant. If it became politically convenient to defend the philipines they could level china pretty easily.
     
     China's power is expanding and eventually it'll come into conflict with some jewish interest or other.
   • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks (washedoutgundampilot@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 05:01:39 JST Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks

     in reply to

     • :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad:

     @Eiregoat They abandoned AFG pretty quick, and those mines there are VERY attractive to keep.

     I don’t think they have the morale, or the confidence outside the brass. The military today seems like a flincher

   • :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 05:23:54 JST :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad:

     in reply to
     > They abandoned AFG pretty quick, and those mines there are VERY attractive to keep.
     
     Not a jewish interest. That's the key to this whole thing, in order for the feds to move a rich jew has to stand a chance of losing something.
     
     TSMC might be that thing, even the jews are heavily dependent on east asian chip manufacturers.
   • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks (washedoutgundampilot@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 05:23:54 JST Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks

     in reply to

     • :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad:

     @Eiregoat Maybe they stick it out, I just don’t see their current-status navy being able to withstand double or triple their deployment length out of nowhere, and they don’t have a lot held back in reserve. The ships are in disarray, the navy was grossly undermanned even 5 years ago, and they’ve got it even worse today. They could do a proxy thing and have taiwan front the monkey work as much as possible, but the navy’s a lot more fearful of ASM than the land forces are of kalbrs

   • :cornbread_going_goblin_mode: Elfie :nafo: (elfie@bae.st)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 10:28:59 JST :cornbread_going_goblin_mode: Elfie :nafo:

     in reply to

     • :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad:
     @WashedOutGundamPilot @Eiregoat
     They could never risk a direct confrontation with China so it's never gonna happen unless they relabel the navy to look like it belongs to X country while still fully manned by Americans
     
     Regardless the time of maritime confrontations isn't coming any time soon
     Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks likes this.
   • PvtProperty (pvtproperty@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 10:29:10 JST PvtProperty

     in reply to
     @WashedOutGundamPilot The establishments refusal to face facts on the ground will be their undoing. Old people who have no idea why shits falling apart are the people running the entire system, and ultimately that works for us in the end if we want an opening for our own people to succeed.
     Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks likes this.
   • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks (washedoutgundampilot@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 10:30:47 JST Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks

     in reply to

     • PvtProperty

     @PvtProperty I talk about the GAO reports too much, but I still need to point out that they had an unscheduled submarine deployment, and in order to make it work the teams took parts off for the hatch from another sister sub that was in port, then finished installation underway. We sent a sub out to intimidate the chinese, and we didn’t even have a war-ready HATCH in the top

     and the navy guys couldn’t do it, they had to pay contractors to stay aboard and finish the installation while they steamed out to glare at the chicoms

     (story from memory, so I might be a tad off on the details, but still)

   • dowitcher (dowitcher@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 10:30:59 JST dowitcher

     in reply to

     • PvtProperty
     @PvtProperty @WashedOutGundamPilot I wonder China doesn't need a hot war to defeat us? If they start operating further out in international waters, they could goad us into increasing our operational tempo to the point it all just falls appart.
     Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks likes this.
   • Sapphire 🍟 :nfp: (sapphire@shortstackran.ch)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 10:54:39 JST Sapphire 🍟 :nfp:

     in reply to

     • PvtProperty
     @WashedOutGundamPilot @PvtProperty this sounds 100% accurate. Better than the Indian screen door fiasco but only because they didn’t have to crash dive
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   • jollybudd1350 🎄 :njp: 🎄 (johnbudd1350@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 11:04:08 JST jollybudd1350 🎄 :njp: 🎄

     in reply to

     • Mithril_Noble
     @Agartha_Noble @WashedOutGundamPilot And "walkability" really just means "no nigger zone" in the end anyways
     Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks likes this.
   • Mithril_Noble (agartha_noble@shortstackran.ch)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 11:04:09 JST Mithril_Noble

     in reply to
     @WashedOutGundamPilot Also, no fucking bridges, and the promise of "Walkability" from a handful of jagoffs somewhere up high in New York.
   • Mithril_Noble (agartha_noble@shortstackran.ch)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 11:04:12 JST Mithril_Noble

     in reply to

     • jollybudd1350 🎄 :njp: 🎄
     @johnbudd1350 @WashedOutGundamPilot That's the crazy shit, people are pushing for MODERN CITIES in their CURRENT STATE to be "walkable". Niggers even stole 'walkability' from us.
     Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks likes this.
   • Mithril_Noble (agartha_noble@shortstackran.ch)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 11:06:21 JST Mithril_Noble

     in reply to

     • Dr. Rupert, Doctor of Shitpoasting Studies
     @WashedOutGundamPilot @RupertvonRipp "Yes, I have been thinking about that, and it EXCITES me!"
     Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks likes this.
   • sparky ⚓ (sparky@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 11:50:13 JST sparky ⚓

     in reply to

     • :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad:
     @Eiregoat @WashedOutGundamPilot They're not well equipped. All our shit is broken, the supply chains are even more broken, Locksneed can't find technicians for their repair lines, we have almost no organic capability, etc.
     
     There's a great book by Trent Hone, Learning War, that discusses the Navy's doctrinal development between the Civil War and WWII. None of the elements are still present.
     Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks likes this.
   • :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 11:50:14 JST :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad:

     in reply to
     The US armed forces were in woeful shape at the onset of WW2. The feds are very effective at mobilising a lot of resources in a very short space of time if they decide to do so. Doing so is typically very inefficient and highly corrupt, but that doesn't bother them.
   • sparky ⚓ (sparky@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 11:50:14 JST sparky ⚓

     in reply to

     • :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad:
     @Eiregoat @WashedOutGundamPilot Force structure and institutions are wildly different today than they were in the 30s. Quality of officers also significantly lower.
   • :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 11:50:14 JST :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad:

     in reply to

     • sparky ⚓
     Maybe, we'll see. The quality of the federal military is low, but they're big and very well equipped.
     
     I have no idea what the quality of manpower is like in the chinese army but their industrial system has a serious problem producing equipment of acceptable quality.
   • sparky ⚓ (sparky@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 11:54:45 JST sparky ⚓

     in reply to

     • :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad:
     @Eiregoat @WashedOutGundamPilot Ground war against a bunch of mountain goatherders or fractured sand people where we can roll in and set up operating bases with almost no resistance is a completely different ballgame than what we'd be doing in China. We're talking about a full-spectrum conflict against an industrial power that necessarily starts in the water 3000 miles away from our shores.
     Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks likes this.
   • :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 11:54:46 JST :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad:

     in reply to

     • sparky ⚓
     Well, if the feds can't fight wars anymore then great. Threat number 1 down. Just saying there's an awful lot of holes in the middle east saying otherwise.
   • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks (washedoutgundampilot@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 11:55:53 JST Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks

     in reply to

     • sparky ⚓
     • :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad:

     @sparky @Eiregoat It’s baffling to think of how their war games go when you look at how much of their stuff, from parts to food to mail, is delivered by a C-5 flying halfway around the world.

     I wonder what the plan is when they need the parts to maintain EVERYTHING in wartime, we’d probably need 20 times the fleet size

   • sparky ⚓ (sparky@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 12:04:24 JST sparky ⚓

     in reply to

     • :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad:
     @WashedOutGundamPilot @Eiregoat Supply Corps Captain I worked for participated in some wargames up in Newport while he was a lieutenant at USFFC circa 2012. He described it as a clownshow, totally unrealistic assumptions that are basically scripted and input from supply officers ignored.
     
     One scenario had them employing all but a handful of the fleet oilers in the Pacific. Not explained was how all the oilers normally in the Atlantic got there, how long it took for them to sail there, how operations were to be sustained in the Atlantic now that all the oilers were in the Pacific, or how they managed to have a higher Ao for oilers than had been achieved at any time since the mid 70s.
     Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks likes this.
   • :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 12:46:44 JST :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad:

     in reply to

     • Tovarish_Pedal
     Yeah, that sucks, but my point is that the war would be won or lost in one engagement. Manufacturing capacity only counts for replenishing stocks afterwards, it wouldn't decide the outcome of the war.
   • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks (washedoutgundampilot@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 12:46:44 JST Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks

     in reply to

     • :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad:
     • Tovarish_Pedal

     @Eiregoat @Tovarish_Pedal Ah, yes, Kantai Kessen, just as infamously used by the victorious japanese in WWII

     An entire war down to one decisive battle

   • Tovarish_Pedal (tovarish_pedal@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 12:46:47 JST Tovarish_Pedal

     in reply to

     • :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad:
     @Eiregoat @WashedOutGundamPilot Missile and planes?
     
     Okay sure. Well, let me put it into perspective.
     
     The premiere AA system for NATO, the Patriot, it's missiles are US manufactured.
     
     Beofre 2016, the US could manufacture about 250 per YEAR. In 2016, a goal was set to double this production, to 500 per year. Today, in 2022(23) we are STILL not making 500 per year.
     
     To put it into perspective, how woefully shitty this is. These are the missiles that would be used to destroy cruise missiles. RU, in Ukraine, just in it's LAST SALVO, like a day ago, used 124 cruise missiles. All totaled, literal thousands of cruise missiles have been used by RU in Ukraine.
     
     500 AA missiles per year(which we don't even make yet), speard over the WHOLE of NATO, PLUS all the nations outside of NATO who purchase the Patriot system. Is nowhere NEAR enough to have an answer to that.
   • Tovarish_Pedal (tovarish_pedal@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 12:46:48 JST Tovarish_Pedal

     in reply to

     • :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad:
     @Eiregoat @WashedOutGundamPilot There is no repeating the "arsenal of democracy" today. And even then, on the aggregate, the US involvement in WW2 was highly overblown.
     
     The US is not a hegemon anymore. It only was because of the fluke of circumstances after WW2, where it was the only White power not destroyed by that war.
     
     But that was temporary.
     
     I really suggest people look at numbers for this sort of stuff, the US makes laughably low numbers of weapons.
   • :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 12:46:48 JST :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad:

     in reply to

     • Tovarish_Pedal
     The US doesn't make much of anything anymore, except missiles and planes.
     
     Those would be the deciding factor in such a war. If it came to rifles it'd mean someone's already lost and doesn't want to admit it.
   • :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 12:48:16 JST :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad:

     in reply to

     • sparky ⚓
     • Tovarish_Pedal
     > But really, to defeat the US navy, you just have to hit a carrier with a cruise missile. And the US morale will snap like a fucking glow stick.
     
     Ok. How many US carriers have been hit by cruise missiles to date?
     
     Plus, if it turns out surface fleets are *that* vulnerable to missiles then it works both ways. Only the US probably has better missile tech and more of them.
     Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks likes this.
   • Tovarish_Pedal (tovarish_pedal@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 12:48:17 JST Tovarish_Pedal

     in reply to

     • sparky ⚓
     • :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad:
     @Eiregoat @WashedOutGundamPilot @sparky The only functional part of the US navy, is the submarine forces. That's about the only real threat to China.
     
     But really, to defeat the US navy, you just have to hit a carrier with a cruise missile. And the US morale will snap like a fucking glow stick.
   • Tovarish_Pedal (tovarish_pedal@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 12:48:18 JST Tovarish_Pedal

     in reply to

     • sparky ⚓
     • :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad:
     @Eiregoat @sparky @WashedOutGundamPilot It would not. That's not how modern war works.
     
     I mean, really, how would the US take out China in a month? How would they even maneuver forces there in a month?
   • :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 12:48:18 JST :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad:

     in reply to

     • sparky ⚓
     • Tovarish_Pedal
     They wouldn't "take out china" in a month, they'd engage the chinese navy within a month. If they lose then that's the end of the war. They'd have to sue for peace at least long enough to build new boats. If they win then they've achieved their objective and china can no longer mount an invasion.
     
     Mainland china itself wouldn't see any war, beyond maybe some strategic bombing/missiles.
   • :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 12:48:19 JST :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad:

     in reply to

     • sparky ⚓
     What's Ao?
     
     I have no doubt the burger navy is a clusterfuck, I just suspect the chink navy is even worse.
     
     They routinely build machines that inadvertently eat people and skyscrapers with so much trash in the support columns they crumble when poked. I find it hard to believe their ships work as intended.
   • sparky ⚓ (sparky@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 12:48:19 JST sparky ⚓

     in reply to

     • :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad:
     @Eiregoat @WashedOutGundamPilot Operational availability, basically the percentage of time that an asset is able to be deployed when needed.
     
     Their shit doesn't have to work better than ours. It can actually be significantly worse and we can still get creamed because the theater is 30 miles off their coast and 3000 miles off ours. Even assuming Japan lets us continue to use Yoko they still have an enormous advantage just because of the distances involved.
   • :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 12:48:19 JST :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad:

     in reply to

     • sparky ⚓
     Japan would bend over backwards for the US in that scenario purely because they know they're next. China wants revenge bad, they lost a lot of face in the 30s. They hate japan war more than they hate us.
     
     I get what you mean about the logistics, but I'm not sure the war would last long enough for them to matter. I think it would be over for all intents and purposes within a week, month at most. Either china gets wiped off the pacific or the US does.
   • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks (washedoutgundampilot@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 12:49:15 JST Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks

     in reply to

     • sparky ⚓
     • :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad:
     • Tovarish_Pedal

     @Eiregoat @Tovarish_Pedal @sparky If nothing else I’ll have a ball watching the same real-time shift we had when battleships went from “YES PEAK WARFIGHTING MACHINE” to “dammit what a waste of money”

   • Tovarish_Pedal (tovarish_pedal@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 12:49:53 JST Tovarish_Pedal

     in reply to

     • sparky ⚓
     • :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad:
     @Eiregoat @WashedOutGundamPilot @sparky The better question would be: Who has the US fought, with the ability to fire a cruise missile at a carrier?
     
     And no, the US does not have better missile tech, nor does it have more missiles. I don't have the number for missiles in my mind right now. But just for perspective. The US makes about 30k or so 155mm artillery shells per YEAR. Russia uses 60k per DAY in Ukraine.
     
     Like I'm serious dude, the US is NOT this undefeatable juggernaut. You were just born in a weird, "post-fuck up" time, where everyone got fucked by a stupid war, and a bunch of parasites got a hold of the one country that didn't, and it was protected by oceans on either side, so it became hegemon, cause all it had for competition were shitskins of various stripe.
     Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks likes this.
   • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks (washedoutgundampilot@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 12:52:12 JST Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks

     in reply to

     • sparky ⚓
     • :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad:
     • Tovarish_Pedal

     @Tovarish_Pedal @Eiregoat @sparky IDK about our ASW missile tech, I assume it’s pretty good, but I wouldn’t know how well they’ve planned for GPS jamming. Sometimes I get the impression that they assume a very easygoing set of rules for their war exercises. I’d be curious how they’d be able to pound a moving carrier OTH without satellite nav to just plug it in

     They announced the other day that they finally had a successful hypersonic missile test, and it was just an air-launch and self-detonate. I know we can kinda sometimes imagine some of that F35 money went to secret “oh snap they did have that afterall!” trump cards, but I don’t think they’re that competent anymore. It’s not like geniuses are being hoovered up to groom lake anymore.

   • Tovarish_Pedal (tovarish_pedal@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 13:04:13 JST Tovarish_Pedal

     in reply to

     • sparky ⚓
     • :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad:
     @WashedOutGundamPilot @Eiregoat @sparky Martyanov has talked about this test and what it means, you can still find the video on his YT.
     
     The US is nowhere near producing anything like a useable hypersonic.
     
     As for Aegis, ya know... ya gotta wonder. I mean, if it's anything like Patriot, it's a piece of shit. has it ever been used?
     Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks likes this.
   • :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 13:11:47 JST :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad:

     in reply to

     • sparky ⚓
     • Dr.AlbinoMutant PHD Critical Zionist Studies
     • Tovarish_Pedal
     Do they work and do they have the capability to locate a US carrier and close within missile range?
     
     If so then great, carriers just became obsolete. If not then they have some really cool high tech dildos.
   • Tovarish_Pedal (tovarish_pedal@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 13:11:47 JST Tovarish_Pedal

     in reply to

     • sparky ⚓
     • :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad:
     • Dr.AlbinoMutant PHD Critical Zionist Studies
     @Eiregoat @AlbinoMutant @WashedOutGundamPilot @sparky I'd also note that Iran could have sunk a carrier at any time, without any hypersonic, just fire a large enough salvo. These ships don't have a whole lot of AA missiles on them.
     Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks likes this.
   • :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 13:11:48 JST :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad:

     in reply to

     • sparky ⚓
     • Tovarish_Pedal
     > The better question would be: Who has the US fought, with the ability to fire a cruise missile at a carrier?
     
     Well so far no one, since there's no dead carriers.
     
     Why do you assert the chinese can do so?
     
     > And no, the US does not have better missile tech,
     
     Genuinely curious about the basis for that. A few years ago china couldn't make a rocket that didn't explode on launch without the help of US contractors. Why would they be better now?
     
     > nor does it have more missiles. I don't have the number for missiles in my mind right now. But just for perspective. The US makes about 30k or so 155mm artillery shells per YEAR. Russia uses 60k per DAY in Ukraine.
     
     1. That's production capacity, not reserves
     
     2. As above, both of those categories only matter in a prolonged conflict.
     
     > Like I'm serious dude, the US is NOT this undefeatable juggernaut. You were just born in a weird, "post-fuck up" time, where everyone got fucked by a stupid war, and a bunch of parasites got a hold of the one country that didn't, and it was protected by oceans on either side, so it became hegemon, cause all it had for competition were shitskins of various stripe.
     
     Huh? The US has lost plenty of wars. I just don't see the chinks beating them at sea.
   • Dr.AlbinoMutant PHD Critical Zionist Studies (albinomutant@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 13:11:48 JST Dr.AlbinoMutant PHD Critical Zionist Studies

     in reply to

     • sparky ⚓
     • :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad:
     • Tovarish_Pedal
     @Eiregoat @Tovarish_Pedal @WashedOutGundamPilot @sparky China has hypersonic antishipping missiles iirc. There is currently no way to defend against them.
   • :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 13:12:09 JST :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad:

     in reply to

     • Paultron-3030
     • Tovarish_Pedal
     Oh ok, gotcha.
     
     Anyhow, I don't see how it could come down to anything other than a decisive battle in a US vs. China war.
     
     If china tries to invade Taiwan then it needs to commit it's fleet. If it commits it's fleet then the US will need to commit theirs. So there's the decisive battle.
   • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks (washedoutgundampilot@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 13:12:09 JST Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks

     in reply to

     • Paultron-3030
     • :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad:
     • Tovarish_Pedal

     @Eiregoat @Paultron @Tovarish_Pedal From the start I’ve been saying that won’t happen, because the US will back down. They’ll bluster and write resolutions and try to economically whip them a bit, but they won’t actually fight. Our command structure has too many boomers, women, and troons in there. (maybe not physically, but spiritually, they’re very effeminate in their social dynamics, they have to be to make rank)

     Bureaucracy strangles the will to act, anyone who could make that call in the moment will likely shy away from it and pull back, because they don’t want to be the one to actually fight. Once the question makes its way up command, they’ll be told it’s better to fight the battle “economically” anyway.

     As far as the military battle would go…..I’ve always said it’s a wash. The chinks are hopelessly inept in many ways, trying to catch up on 100 years of naval lessons from copying others, with a retarded organization full of yes-men and robotic bugmen.

     But america -astoundingly - has fallen so far I can’t just say they’ll win it out the gate, either. They booted out a lot of their best critical thinkers in the last 2 years, and command is far more political than capable. They’ve set their mental barometers to the sandbox for so long they can’t even hypothesize what a ‘peer’ would be.

     If china can survive the first while and learn som very harsh lessons, then they could prove embarrassing for the US. The USN will continually fuck up as errors and mistakes accumulate, things break down, personnel degrade, and try to patch those issues more fancy fantasy solutions.

     It really is like trying to project the outcome of a slapfight between two retards.

   • :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 13:12:10 JST :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad:

     in reply to

     • Paultron-3030
     • Tovarish_Pedal
     By definition... shouldn't it have an equal amount of wins and losses? Or did both sides manage to win a few times?
   • Paultron-3030 (paultron@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 13:12:10 JST Paultron-3030

     in reply to

     • :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad:
     • Tovarish_Pedal
     @Eiregoat @Tovarish_Pedal @WashedOutGundamPilot only if both sides are using decisive battle doctrine
     
     the US pioneered it in Spanish-American war, kind of by accident
     Japs rammed it down the Russkies throat. God only knows what naval doctrine the Russians were following. nothing that made sense
     
     then the Japs tried to use it against the Americans, who were definitely not following Mahan's doctrine and instead choking out the enemy with infinite, distributed sub+plane spam (p effective vs a maritime island nation)
   • Paultron-3030 (paultron@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 13:12:11 JST Paultron-3030

     in reply to

     • :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad:
     • Tovarish_Pedal
     @WashedOutGundamPilot @Eiregoat @Tovarish_Pedal tbh decisive battle doctrine has more wins in its book than losses, and that loss is p exceptional (engaging an enemy of functionally infinite industrial and manpower over a prolonged war)
   • Paultron-3030 (paultron@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 13:14:20 JST Paultron-3030

     in reply to

     • :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad:
     • Tovarish_Pedal
     @Eiregoat @Tovarish_Pedal @WashedOutGundamPilot the problem with the scenario presented is that it assumes the US *must* engage the hypothetical Chinese fleet over Taiwan to defeat them, which isn't true
     
     despite its size, China has remarkably little agricultural land so it is dependent on imports to feed itself, not even bringing in questions of raw resources or fuels. It also has no real direct maritime trade routes into the ocean at large that take it out of reach of NATO or western aligned missiles (see the constant dick measuring in the Jap southern island chains)
     
     The Chinese navy, despite massive growth both qualitatively and quantitatively, is nowhere near that of the USN (at least on paper). Their ASW capabilities are p shit and dependent on high freq sonar usage in shallow SCS conditions or intercepting using their hilariously bad sonar net that is constantly being overrun by loud merchants heading to HK and Singapore. Their carrier force is gaining expertise quickly but their fleet lacks proper blue water capability due to lack of fuelers and supply ships as well as having a very green screen force. Even Chinese state media sources, when talking about how they're totally about to take Taiwan, fall back to talking about commandeering civi car ferries as LHDs- not a great look when Taiwan gets more of the best harpoons available yearly
     
     honestly if your aim is just a raw defeat of china opposing their invasion and massed strength isn't even smart, just let them break the bulk of their forces on a pyrrhic taiwanese invasion then wipe their maritime trade off the seas and kick back. Their missile forces and their 5th column are the only wildcard visible right now and i really don't buy the bill of goods on their hypersonics, to say the least
     Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks likes this.
   • :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 13:15:47 JST :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad:

     in reply to

     • sparky ⚓
     • Dr.AlbinoMutant PHD Critical Zionist Studies
     • Tovarish_Pedal
     Their construction industry is also very impressive. They build hundreds of high rise tower blocks per year. I wouldn't bet on many of them being around in 10-20 years though.
     
     China is amazing at producing things in incredible quantity, but it's not typically the most durable or functional.
     Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks likes this.
   • Dr.AlbinoMutant PHD Critical Zionist Studies (albinomutant@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 13:15:48 JST Dr.AlbinoMutant PHD Critical Zionist Studies

     in reply to

     • sparky ⚓
     • :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad:
     • Tovarish_Pedal
     @Eiregoat @Tovarish_Pedal @WashedOutGundamPilot @sparky Yes, carriers are no longer the kings of the sea.
     
     Chinas navy is growing very quickly. They will be putting 100 modern blue water ships into the ocean over the next 10 15 years.
   • Dr.AlbinoMutant PHD Critical Zionist Studies (albinomutant@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 13:24:07 JST Dr.AlbinoMutant PHD Critical Zionist Studies

     in reply to

     • sparky ⚓
     • :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad:
     • Tovarish_Pedal
     @Eiregoat @Tovarish_Pedal @WashedOutGundamPilot @sparky They have half the worlds shipbuilding capacity. The can build quality ships quickly.
   • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks (washedoutgundampilot@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 13:24:07 JST Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks

     in reply to

     • sparky ⚓
     • :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad:
     • Dr.AlbinoMutant PHD Critical Zionist Studies
     • Tovarish_Pedal

     @AlbinoMutant @Eiregoat @Tovarish_Pedal @sparky I don’t think the numbers are what makes it though. Every day I see more of a little slice of our society and I see waste. I see slippage.

     If you were to measure the economy, or a system by how effectively it can leverage its real resources, like you measure the diff between wheel horsepower and crank horsepower, I’d be you’d find us at 40% for most places and most things. Every interaction, story, and tidbit I glean paints a military picture just as bad in the service, so I don’t really care too much about what kind of power the US navy is supposed to make at the crank. I care about how much reaches the tarmac.

     Naval history has all kinds of “wait, how’d they fuck that up they should have won? How in the hell? Are they retarded?“ moments, and our military seems to have dedicated itself to staffing every critical position with as many weighted dice rolls as it can.

     Uh oh, captain karen wasn’t paying attention to her nav charts and now she’s stuck in shallow waters her screen has broken formation and now she’s easy picking for submarines.

     Oops, the night watchman was too busy watching porn on his smuggled phone to notice the swiftboat sidling up alongside the ship

     Those are the little vagaries of wartime that you can’t ever plan for, and I can’t help but expect us to have the worst string of luck an american fighting force has ever experienced when people like THIS are the ones at the helm:

     The upside? Well, the opponents are in many ways similarly retarded.

   • :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 13:29:15 JST :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad:

     in reply to

     • Paultron-3030
     • Tovarish_Pedal
     The goal of the US in opposing an invasion of Taiwan would be to protect their chip manufacturing though. Sitting back and watching it play out would mean conceding that objective. Even if China doesn't get them then the US is still denied them.
   • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks (washedoutgundampilot@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 13:29:15 JST Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks

     in reply to

     • Paultron-3030
     • :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad:
     • Tovarish_Pedal

     @Eiregoat @Paultron @Tovarish_Pedal Upthread I didn’t even imagine them taking taiwan, I was picturing the chinks expanding their sphere (like they’ve been trying to do) to assure a steady stream of imports, creeping outward and telling the US “hey from now on you stay 500 nm back, we’ll take care of patrolling this region from now on”

     They’ve given it a soft push here and there, how would the US respond to a more firm declaration? A few “safety of passage” voyages here and there for the photo op, then each year their operations sphere is scaled back more and more until they cede that portion of sea altogether because it just isn’t worth the trouble.

     What happens if they have a carrier there already, and they wanna keep it out there for fear of never being able to re-enter those waters once it leaves? All kinds of catty, passive-aggressive silliness can happen. And I just don’t see the current command structure, whether political or military starting a real fight over that kind of thing. We’ve already been getting elbowed around by those garbage islands they build, why would they mind granting some more pseudo-sovereign ocean to patrol?

   • n8⚡⚡ (n8@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 13:29:40 JST n8⚡⚡

     in reply to

     • sparky ⚓
     • :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad:
     @sparky @Eiregoat @WashedOutGundamPilot sheiiiit, quality SNCOs are few and far between too man.
     Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks likes this.
   • mmmfeet (mmmfeet@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 13:29:53 JST mmmfeet

     in reply to

     • :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad:
     @Eiregoat @WashedOutGundamPilot Imagine trying to do a White Feather campaign today, it would be a miracle if any of the wamen survive
     Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks likes this.
   • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks (washedoutgundampilot@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 13:39:42 JST Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks

     in reply to

     • Paultron-3030
     • :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad:
     • Tovarish_Pedal

     @Eiregoat @Paultron @Tovarish_Pedal Yeah, but our ‘give’ point is much deeper than you want to think it is, by my projections. I think the chinks can ask for a LOT and have it handed right to them.

     Hell, look at their industry already. How many pieces of critical infrastructure have we just tossed over to them for a pittance? Just like the dumbass brits handing over the Nene, we just can’t stop handing out rope to lynch us with.

     When push comes to shove, I absolutely expect our ‘leaders’ to say they’re doing the patient, wise, and righteous thing by backing down every time it counts. Watch as the sphere of china’s de facto sea claims expands and pelosians tell us it’s actually saving us money by not requiring patrols, that it’s nice that china is taking up the mantle of maritime security as a global citizen.

     Then we’ll tell our kids how “I couldn’t believe how stupid they were to do that”

   • :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 13:39:43 JST :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad:

     in reply to

     • Paultron-3030
     • Tovarish_Pedal
     They've already done it quite a bit. Mostly muscling in on the Filipinos and Vietnamese. There's a limit to what the US will tolerate though and I think they know that. Everything they do is about taking as much as they can and pretending they're fearless without actually provoking a war.
   • :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 13:43:04 JST :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad:

     in reply to

     • sparky ⚓
     • Dr.AlbinoMutant PHD Critical Zionist Studies
     • Tovarish_Pedal
     > China in general doesn't seem to be awfully interested in being a military hegemon.
     
     Huh? Have you seen wolf warrior? They're salivating at the prospect of replacing the US as world ruler.
     
     > Like I said, they have no history or culture of great military might. And I suspect it is not in them as a people. Which is fine.
     
     That's just not true. China is absolutely huge precisely because they did. Imagine if we called europe "England" or "France" because they took over the entire continent. That's China.
     
     > They clearly have A LOT of economic power they can wield.
     
     Eh... they can grant or deny access to their domestic market and they can cut off the supply of consumer trinkets. Neither are essential.
   • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks (washedoutgundampilot@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 13:43:04 JST Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks

     in reply to

     • sparky ⚓
     • :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad:
     • Dr.AlbinoMutant PHD Critical Zionist Studies
     • Tovarish_Pedal

     @Eiregoat @Tovarish_Pedal @AlbinoMutant @sparky “consumer trinkets” meaning just about everything that makes us first world. Take away all that faff and you’ll be astonished at how impossible it seems for american professionals to go without, to go back a generation or two in their equipment.

     I wouldn’t wanna be hospitalized without the chinese economy flowing freely. In such a situation we’d have to worry about india, too, which has a pretty hefty footprint of the Rx industry.

     I wonder how quickly we can mobilize our Etsy® industry to create wartime essentials?

   • :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 13:43:05 JST :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad:

     in reply to

     • sparky ⚓
     • Dr.AlbinoMutant PHD Critical Zionist Studies
     • Tovarish_Pedal
     > The upside? Well, the opponents are in many ways similarly retarded.
     
     That's pretty much my entire argument. China manages to be even more wasteful and incompetant than the feds. It's not even an upside for me: I'd rather have to deal with weak feds and a strong china. The chinese are half the world away, the feds are right here.
     
     One thing kinda sums it up for me is when the MRE guy tasted chinese rations. They were pretty awful and probably gone off, but he mentions that they're just for show and the chinese being field kitchens with them everywhere. They just made fancy MREs because everyone else had them so they had to too.
     
     I suspect the same is true of a lot of their high prestige military projects like stealth fighters and submarines and such. They look the part and they manage to impress foreign observers, but it's not like we can buy one to try it out.
   • Tovarish_Pedal (tovarish_pedal@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 13:43:05 JST Tovarish_Pedal

     in reply to

     • sparky ⚓
     • :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad:
     • Dr.AlbinoMutant PHD Critical Zionist Studies
     @Eiregoat @WashedOutGundamPilot @AlbinoMutant @sparky China in general doesn't seem to be awfully interested in being a military hegemon.
     
     Like I said, they have no history or culture of great military might. And I suspect it is not in them as a people. Which is fine.
     
     They clearly have A LOT of economic power they can wield.
     
     Honestly I think they have to know Stealth planes are a meme. So that's gotta be for show.
   • Paultron-3030 (paultron@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 13:43:32 JST Paultron-3030

     in reply to

     • :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad:
     • Tovarish_Pedal
     @WashedOutGundamPilot @Eiregoat @Tovarish_Pedal It's not easy to get into the heads of what the asians are thinking but at the end of the day it's simple, trade is life for them. and for them trade is assured and safe use of trade routes. and china is cursed to not have any decent ones except for one, south thru singapore, that is an exposed jugular to the world
     
     if i were head king nigger of USA the first thing i would do is give the chinese a treaty guaranteed passage for all chink flagged ships straight east of shanghai. maybe the USA is not agreement-capable, maybe the japs would pitch a fit, but honestly Chinese naval expansion and posturing has been way more devoted to that than taiwan. they probably wouldn't trust it and given US actions they'd be right not to, but it seems the #1 Adults-In-The-Room solution to avoid confrontation and probably end up benefitting everyone involved (except japan, get fucked)
     
     either way asian geopolitics are way more interesting than euros, even with a straight up hot war in europe rn (right now). the chinese and even the koreans- both types- have very clear and easily understood goals and try to attain them in novel yet logical ways, only to have big nigger retard USA shift course every 4 years and shit all over it
     Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks likes this.
   • :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 13:51:58 JST :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad:

     in reply to

     • Paultron-3030
     • Tovarish_Pedal
     China is investing heavily in overland trade routes for exactly that reason though. Like rail, pipeline and road links through Russia.
     
     If they succeed the US does not have the military power to threaten those. The only way I can see a US-Chinese war happening is at sea. In which case I'd predict a US victory followed by a chinese withdrawal to the mainland then peace negotiations.
     
     If the US were idiotic enough to try a land war then they'd end up ruining themselves financially and not achieving any goal of note.
   • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks (washedoutgundampilot@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 31-Dec-2022 13:51:58 JST Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks

     in reply to

     • Paultron-3030
     • :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad:
     • Tovarish_Pedal

     @Eiregoat @Paultron @Tovarish_Pedal That’s why the war ain’t happening. They’ll find new, fresh, and inventive ways to rename every concession we ever make as exciting victories for global peace.

   • Dr.AlbinoMutant PHD Critical Zionist Studies (albinomutant@poa.st)'s status on Sunday, 01-Jan-2023 01:06:31 JST Dr.AlbinoMutant PHD Critical Zionist Studies

     in reply to

     • sparky ⚓
     • :spinnenrad: Festivegoat :spinnenrad:
     • Tovarish_Pedal
     @Eiregoat @Tovarish_Pedal @WashedOutGundamPilot @sparky Japanese and German manufactured goods were both once ridiculed for their low quality early on during their industrialization.
     
     Now i do not think that the Chinese are as conscientious as the Japs or Krauts, but as their expertise grows, their quality will grow too.
     Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks likes this.
   • Dr. Rupert, Doctor of Shitpoasting Studies (rupertvonripp@poa.st)'s status on Thursday, 09-Nov-2023 07:05:35 JST Dr. Rupert, Doctor of Shitpoasting Studies

     in reply to
     @WashedOutGundamPilot Yeah I'd rather their social contract than weed scented niggerfaggotry. From what I understand many major metros now are just giant collections of niggerfaggots in apartments that cost more than my monthly take home while vagrants shit in the gutter while overdosing to the tune of niggerbeats and clouds of herb.
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   • PonyPanda (ponypanda@freespeechextremist.com)'s status on Thursday, 09-Nov-2023 07:10:04 JST PonyPanda

     in reply to
     @WashedOutGundamPilot
     raf goes woke.png
     raf goes broke.png
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