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Frost, Wolffucker 🐺:therian: (icewolf@masto.brightfur.net)'s status on Tuesday, 16-May-2023 03:12:22 JST Frost, Wolffucker 🐺:therian:

[update: it sounds like the search respects the profile discoverability opt-out, which federates, unlike the "search engine indexing" thing which does not? That's much less bad than we thought. It should still be opt-IN, though, not opt-out. https://oliphant.social/@oliphant/110373855153327649]
so apparently universeodon.com is doing FULL INDEXING on every post they receive, without consent. It sounds like maybe even non-public posts??
"we didn't get people yelling at us, so it must be okay! but now people are? what the fuck?"
source:
https://terrible.city/@wolfe/110367918333706199
https://mas.to/@tokyo_0/110362014921240639
https://social.pixie.town/@joepie91/110361918551656137
https://universeodon.com/@supernovae/110351720627808159
I don't usually make fediblock posts, but uh
yeah if you don't want to be indexed without consent...
#fediblock universeodon.com for fulltext indexing incoming posts.
In conversation Tuesday, 16-May-2023 03:12:22 JST from masto.brightfur.net permalink
Attachments
1. Oliphant of Wisdom (@oliphant@oliphant.social)
  
  from Oliphant of Wisdom
  
  Attached: 1 image A bit annoyed about this. See this screenshot? Now compare it to what the docs says it is for and tell me if you notice a distinct gap between what we're telling users and what we're telling developers. https://docs.joinmastodon.org/spec/activitypub/#discoverable This is the setting that federates, not the "opt out of search indexing" which is for *search engines* (like Google) indexing only. With this setting *off* or posting Unlisted, none of your posts should be searchable by full-text indexing from other servers, because the current universeodon search patch respects this setting. The annoying part is that the Mastodon UI makes it sounds like you're opting only into *profile* discoverability, whereas on the backend it is telling developers to use it as an opt-in for search.
2. No result found on File_thumbnail lookup.
  
  Wolfe Silver (@wolfe@terrible.city)
  
  from Wolfe Silver
  
  join me in defederating from universeodon until they respect the don't-index-my-posts flag
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  Tokyo Outsider (337ppm) (@tokyo_0@mas.to)
  
  from Tokyo Outsider (337ppm)
  
  @supernovae@universeodon.com 1. Then how are my posts on your instance? 2. You're talking about system-internal indexing. I'm talking about indexing made available to people online (the type you are using). Which you surely understand... so odd that you would say this (or, odd if you were operating in good faith, at least) 3. It opts out of search engine indexing. You've built a search engine into your instance. It should respect the flag 4. Odd, because that seems to be exactly what you're doing @mejofi@ngmx.com
4. Sven Slootweg (@joepie91@pixie.town)
  
  from Sven Slootweg
  
  @tokyo_0@mas.to @supernovae@universeodon.com So is *that* why I've been getting random replyguys from Universeodon who don't follow me?
5. No result found on File_thumbnail lookup.
  
  Byron Miller (@supernovae@universeodon.com)
  
  from Byron Miller
  
  In four months of having full text search, we have not received any complaints of abuse or concerns from any local users or users across federation. Now, the discussions of this out in the open have been extreme and highly debated but I feel it's time to share that I have not experienced any of the "beefs" with search and I've learned that I think we have more problems without search. With search, we have an auto-moderator bot that can look for keywords and surface posts to moderators for review. With search we can watch for trends and boost posts that otherwise are hard to discover. With search you can discover people on their profiles because they have facts about them beyond just their username. With search, we could do cool things like saved searches as lists or saved searches as advanced UI panes. Y'all write amazing content that begs to be discovered and y'all deserve that discovery remains in your hands as user options to opt/in out and not give it to Google.
- Frost, Wolffucker 🐺:therian: (icewolf@masto.brightfur.net)'s status on Tuesday, 16-May-2023 03:12:16 JST Frost, Wolffucker 🐺:therian:
  in reply to
  - Polychrome :meowtea:
  @Polychrome "You should have been told that when you joined"
  No. Fuck off.
  We have had TOO MANY PEOPLE, with TOO MANY THINGS, tell us "you agreed, so it's okay!" / other variations of "It's Just Like That, Deal"
  No, it is /not/ "just like that", we can make a better world where consent is respected, and... yeah, no. Go with your "but it's Just Like That" somewhere /else/.
  
  In conversation Tuesday, 16-May-2023 03:12:16 JST permalink
- Polychrome :meowtea: (polychrome@poly.cybre.city)'s status on Tuesday, 16-May-2023 03:12:17 JST Polychrome :meowtea:
  in reply to
  
  @IceWolf consent to search is actually a complex problem that we've debated on fedi multiple times over the years.
  
  Fedi was never designed to stop people from searching, or viewed searching from instances as bad. You should have been told that when you joined - the fact you weren't informed is the problem.
  
  I agree that freely searchable posts can be easily abused for harassment and that this is a bad thing - but the fact is that ActivityPub (Fedi's protocol) was never designed with privacy in mind. The only consent the protocol considers is your clicking the Post button, with the knowledge that once the post gets out there - it's out of your hands.
  
  For a long time we couldn't even edit or delete our posts - this was only added later and the implementation is not reliable and probably never will be due to the very nature of the system.
  
  The creators of this system never saw search as a bad thing. Which is why almost every Fedi server out there - with the glaring exception of Mastodon - feature some kind of search capabilities.
  
  I think Mastodon's approach of pretending the Fediverse is private and secure is the real problem here - it gave users the false impression that their posts are private, while they are not. It pretends to have privacy settings and tools, but they are barely effective. The truth is, Mastodon is misleading its users. ActivityPub is not private. It never been.
  
  So in conclusion, do I like having my posts searchable? Not really.
  
  But I know that this system doesn't mind searches, and has no privacy tools. So I am fully aware that all of my posts will be fully exposed and treat them as such.
  
  If I want to post something in private... I do it elsewhere.
  
  In conversation Tuesday, 16-May-2023 03:12:17 JST permalink
  
  🌲Number 1 Pleroma Criminal on XBL 🇵🇱|🇺🇸 repeated this.
- Frost, Wolffucker 🐺:therian: (icewolf@masto.brightfur.net)'s status on Tuesday, 16-May-2023 03:12:18 JST Frost, Wolffucker 🐺:therian:
  in reply to
  - (NekoSock) Miya Ironami
  @iro_miya Because if they find a post in the federated timeline, that's like... they just happened to see it.
  Don't let people SEARCH for whatever kind of people they don't like and harass them.
  Also just like, I'm cool with people /happening/ to find my posts, NOT with them being able to /search/ for them.
  If you want to search for my posts, ASK FIRST. It being public is NOT CONSENT.
  
  In conversation Tuesday, 16-May-2023 03:12:18 JST permalink
  
  🌲Number 1 Pleroma Criminal on XBL 🇵🇱|🇺🇸 repeated this.
- (NekoSock) Miya Ironami (iro_miya@mk.absturztau.be)'s status on Tuesday, 16-May-2023 03:12:19 JST (NekoSock) Miya Ironami
  in reply to
  
  @IceWolf@masto.brightfur.net consent for what? displaying posts? isn't that what visibility is for?
  
  why is it different if someone finds a post in search and if someone finds a post in the federated timeline?
  
  In conversation Tuesday, 16-May-2023 03:12:19 JST permalink
  
  🌲Number 1 Pleroma Criminal on XBL 🇵🇱|🇺🇸 repeated this.
- Frost, Wolffucker 🐺:therian: (icewolf@masto.brightfur.net)'s status on Tuesday, 16-May-2023 03:12:20 JST Frost, Wolffucker 🐺:therian:
  in reply to
  - (NekoSock) Miya Ironami
  @iro_miya They do? Well they fucking SHOULDN'T!
  
  In conversation Tuesday, 16-May-2023 03:12:20 JST permalink
- Frost, Wolffucker 🐺:therian: (icewolf@masto.brightfur.net)'s status on Tuesday, 16-May-2023 03:12:20 JST Frost, Wolffucker 🐺:therian:
  in reply to
  - (NekoSock) Miya Ironami
  @iro_miya like
  /consent/
  it's /not that hard./
  
  In conversation Tuesday, 16-May-2023 03:12:20 JST permalink
  
  🌲Number 1 Pleroma Criminal on XBL 🇵🇱|🇺🇸 repeated this.
- (NekoSock) Miya Ironami (iro_miya@mk.absturztau.be)'s status on Tuesday, 16-May-2023 03:12:21 JST (NekoSock) Miya Ironami
  in reply to
  
  @IceWolf@masto.brightfur.net you know that akkoma and misskey instances can all do fulltext search on all posts right?
  
  In conversation Tuesday, 16-May-2023 03:12:21 JST permalink
- Frost, Wolffucker 🐺:therian: (icewolf@masto.brightfur.net)'s status on Tuesday, 16-May-2023 03:14:41 JST Frost, Wolffucker 🐺:therian:
  in reply to
  - Ash
  @Ash Hey, could you please just FUCK THE FUCK OFF?
  If another site is letting Google kndex random servers' posts through them, that a) has very little to do with this and b) is a misconfiguration on their part, and THEY'RE not respecting people EITHER.
  
  In conversation Tuesday, 16-May-2023 03:14:41 JST permalink
  
  🌲Number 1 Pleroma Criminal on XBL 🇵🇱|🇺🇸 repeated this.
- Ash (ash@awoo.fyi)'s status on Tuesday, 16-May-2023 03:14:42 JST Ash
  in reply to
  
  @IceWolf have you seen this?
  
  https://www.google.com/search?q=%22icewolf%40masto.brightfur.net%22+site%3Amstdn.social
  In conversation Tuesday, 16-May-2023 03:14:42 JST permalink
  Attachments
  1. "icewolf@masto.brightfur.net" site:mstdn.social - Google 検索
  🌲Number 1 Pleroma Criminal on XBL 🇵🇱|🇺🇸 repeated this.
- Frost, Wolffucker 🐺:therian: (icewolf@masto.brightfur.net)'s status on Tuesday, 16-May-2023 03:14:47 JST Frost, Wolffucker 🐺:therian:
  in reply to
  - Ash
  @Ash And neither are you. Please do not fucking PILE ON just to snarkily yell at me for asking for basic respect.
  
  In conversation Tuesday, 16-May-2023 03:14:47 JST permalink
  
  🌲Number 1 Pleroma Criminal on XBL 🇵🇱|🇺🇸 repeated this.
- Frost, Wolffucker 🐺:therian: (icewolf@masto.brightfur.net)'s status on Tuesday, 16-May-2023 03:14:55 JST Frost, Wolffucker 🐺:therian:
  in reply to
  - Ash
  @Ash ...unless this /wasn't/ actually meant as a "haha you can't do anything anyway!", but considering all the other people we've been having to deal with all of a sudden, I'm not particularly hopeful.
  
  In conversation Tuesday, 16-May-2023 03:14:55 JST permalink