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1. Jeff Cliff (jeffcliff@shitposter.club)'s status on Friday, 12-May-2023 05:29:22 JST Jeff Cliff

   • Dr. Adam Ogieglo
   @aogieglo
   > Finally getting to the root of the problem down there in Michigan. Should have banned backpacks a long time ago.
   > https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/2nd-michigan-school-district-bans-backpacks-after-loaded-gun-found-1.6393392?
   https://twitter.com/AOgieglo/status/1656526061356605440
   • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Friday, 12-May-2023 05:29:22 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

     in reply to

     • Dr. Adam Ogieglo
     @jeffcliff @aogieglo If banning stuff worked you would think banning the gun would be enough
   • Jeff Cliff (jeffcliff@shitposter.club)'s status on Friday, 12-May-2023 05:41:51 JST Jeff Cliff

     in reply to

     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
     • Dr. Adam Ogieglo
     > At the age of 18 or up, it is legal to buy a handgun
     
     #michigan
   • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Friday, 12-May-2023 05:41:51 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

     in reply to

     • Dr. Adam Ogieglo
     @jeffcliff @aogieglo but schools are gun free zones
   • Jeff Cliff (jeffcliff@shitposter.club)'s status on Friday, 12-May-2023 05:49:39 JST Jeff Cliff

     in reply to

     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
     • Dr. Adam Ogieglo
     what's the mean distance from school to place where guns can be purchased in michigan?
   • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Friday, 12-May-2023 05:49:39 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

     in reply to

     • Dr. Adam Ogieglo
     @jeffcliff @aogieglo no idea. Do you think the 3rd grader picked it up at the store on the way to school or something?
   • Jeff Cliff (jeffcliff@shitposter.club)'s status on Friday, 12-May-2023 05:53:40 JST Jeff Cliff

     in reply to

     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
     • Dr. Adam Ogieglo
     the point is, if the surrounding area around the school has tons of guns
     making the school gun free is going to be a losing battle
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   • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Friday, 12-May-2023 05:53:40 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

     in reply to

     • Dr. Adam Ogieglo
     @jeffcliff @aogieglo making anything a gun free zone is a losing battle. Those wanting to commit a violent crime are probably not particularly concerned about avoiding contraband rules. You could even say that a person who wants to do a lot of damage might target a location where law abiding citizens are likely not to be armed.
   • Jeff Cliff (jeffcliff@shitposter.club)'s status on Friday, 12-May-2023 05:57:35 JST Jeff Cliff

     in reply to

     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
     • Dr. Adam Ogieglo
     Know how many guns were in my elementary school? Ever, the whole time I was there?
     
     > Those wanting to commit a violent crime
     
     we're talking about 3rd graders here
   • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Friday, 12-May-2023 05:57:35 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

     in reply to

     • Dr. Adam Ogieglo
     @jeffcliff @aogieglo impossible to tell. I also never had a school shooting or saw a gun at school, but that doesn't mean they were never there.
   • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Friday, 12-May-2023 05:58:06 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

     in reply to

     • Dr. Adam Ogieglo
     @jeffcliff @aogieglo in this incident the weapon was being carried by a 3rd grader. All schools are gun free zones afaik
   • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Friday, 12-May-2023 05:58:23 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

     in reply to

     • Dr. Adam Ogieglo
     @jeffcliff @aogieglo if there were you would never know.
   • Jeff Cliff (jeffcliff@shitposter.club)'s status on Friday, 12-May-2023 05:58:24 JST Jeff Cliff

     in reply to

     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
     • Dr. Adam Ogieglo
     No it isn't, because there wasn't any
   • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Friday, 12-May-2023 06:06:27 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

     in reply to

     • Dr. Adam Ogieglo
     @jeffcliff @aogieglo
     > I guess but the point is there's a very tight knit community
     
     So it wasn't the fact that your school was designated as a gun free zone, but the tight knit community around the school that resulted in lower crime.
     
     > I know it's hard to imagine
     
     yeah because thinking that cultural changes are more significant than legislative/policy changes when it comes to preventing crime in a community means that my community doesn't respect guns or schools 🙄
   • Jeff Cliff (jeffcliff@shitposter.club)'s status on Friday, 12-May-2023 06:06:28 JST Jeff Cliff

     in reply to

     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
     • Dr. Adam Ogieglo
     I guess but the point is there's a very tight knit community around that particular elementary school and people leave their guns at home when going into it.
     
     I know it's hard to imagine, but there's a culture of being very respectful about guns and schools in some places
   • CEO of Monoeye Dating (ceo_of_monoeye_dating@bae.st)'s status on Friday, 12-May-2023 06:06:40 JST CEO of Monoeye Dating

     in reply to

     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
     • Dr. Adam Ogieglo
     @aogieglo @thatguyoverthere @aogieglo @jeffcliff "I have five dollars from the tooth fairy, I would like a shotgun please."
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   • Nick (nou@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 12-May-2023 06:08:09 JST Nick

     in reply to

     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
     @jeffcliff @thatguyoverthere But Jeff... you're a C*nadian. You niggers are scared of a strong breeze. Obviously a firearm would send you into hysterical shock.
   • Jeff Cliff (jeffcliff@shitposter.club)'s status on Friday, 12-May-2023 06:08:09 JST Jeff Cliff

     in reply to

     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
     • Nick
     There's some truth in this. Someone having a gun in an elementary school would probably make the news. People would *freak*
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   • Jeff Cliff (jeffcliff@shitposter.club)'s status on Friday, 12-May-2023 06:16:30 JST Jeff Cliff

     in reply to

     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
     • Dr. Adam Ogieglo
     > So it wasn't the fact that your school was designated as a gun free zone, but the tight knit community around the school that resulted in lower crime.
     
     Right - we didn't *have* to designate the school as a gun free zone because the idea of bringing guns into a school would have been considered dangerously retarded
     
     > yeah because thinking that cultural changes are more significant than legislative/policy changes when it comes to preventing crime in a community means that my community doesn't respect guns or schools 🙄
     
     I am starting to wonder given this thread
   • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Friday, 12-May-2023 06:16:30 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

     in reply to

     • Dr. Adam Ogieglo
     @jeffcliff @aogieglo > starting to wonder
     
     you already insinuated though. My point is not that kids should take guns to school. that's retarded. My original point was simply that banning backpacks doesn't stop people from finding ways to bring guns into school. The school is already a gun free zone, and that isn't working. There are cultural problems that aren't simply related to the ownership of guns that lead people to attack others in their community, and I suspect that in this particular case the kid had their parents firearm because the parent was not acting responsibly. They may have just thought it was cool or they might have been being bullied and felt they couldn't ask someone for help. The parent should be held responsible for allowing the child to get their hands on the firearm (especially considering it was loaded - I suspect it was being stored that way). I think that if a school district is in an area where violent crime is high, the community should have the right to request the school be hardened which might include staff being authorized to carry a firearm. I would say if staff do carry in a school it should be concealed to not cause any tension or make themselves a target.
   • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Friday, 12-May-2023 06:18:23 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

     in reply to

     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
     • Dr. Adam Ogieglo
     @jeffcliff @aogieglo you kind of made my point in your first block there:
     
     > we didn't *have* to designate the school as a gun free zone because the idea of bringing guns into a school would have been considered dangerously retarded
     
     we don't need more policy, we need better communities that police themselves better.
   • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Friday, 12-May-2023 10:11:21 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

     in reply to

     • mike805
     • Dr. Adam Ogieglo
     @mike805 @aogieglo @jeffcliff yeah I think firearms education could help people learn some of the essentials of firearm safety. Maybe you wouldn't have parents that leave a loaded firearm where a third grader can get to it.
   • mike805 (mike805@fosstodon.org)'s status on Friday, 12-May-2023 10:11:22 JST mike805

     in reply to

     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
     • Dr. Adam Ogieglo

     @thatguyoverthere @aogieglo @jeffcliff There was a time, not that long ago, when quite a few schools had rifle clubs, and people did bring long guns to school to participate in shooting sports. Nobody was worried about them shooting each other.

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   • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Friday, 12-May-2023 10:12:52 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

     in reply to

     • mike805
     • Dr. Adam Ogieglo
     @mike805 @aogieglo @jeffcliff I have heard of high schoolers a generation ahead of mine with gun racks
   • Jeff Cliff (jeffcliff@shitposter.club)'s status on Friday, 12-May-2023 10:13:42 JST Jeff Cliff

     in reply to

     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
     • mike805
     • Dr. Adam Ogieglo
     i agree, that it's an important thing for kids to learn and a class going to a rifle range wouldn't be the worst thing
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   • mike805 (mike805@fosstodon.org)'s status on Friday, 12-May-2023 10:15:33 JST mike805

     in reply to

     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
     • Dr. Adam Ogieglo

     @thatguyoverthere @aogieglo @jeffcliff I like this picture to show what the world was once like. Two kids clowning around with a toy gun in front of a cop. The cop is making a funny face, obviously amused. Nobody is worried that the gun might be real, the kid might be crazy, and they might be about to get shot.

     What changed? Seriously, WHAT CHANGED? There were gangs and criminals and crazy people then too. But something fundamentally changed.

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   • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Friday, 12-May-2023 10:20:56 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

     in reply to

     • mike805
     • Dr. Adam Ogieglo
     @mike805 @aogieglo @jeffcliff this really hits the main point I think is entirely missed in the gun control debate. No amount of rules and restrictions around firearms ownership can fix a broken culture. Something else has to change in homes and towns/cities.
   • mike805 (mike805@fosstodon.org)'s status on Friday, 12-May-2023 19:14:04 JST mike805

     in reply to

     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
     • Dr. Adam Ogieglo

     @thatguyoverthere @aogieglo @jeffcliff And the more broken the culture becomes, the more people are going to feel like they need a gun in case crazy comes for them.

     When that picture was taken, most cities did not permit concealed carry, with a few exceptions for people who could show 'good cause." Often that meant "friend of the police chief."

     Most people didn't feel the need to carry, so there was no big push to legalize it.

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   • Jeff Cliff (jeffcliff@shitposter.club)'s status on Friday, 12-May-2023 19:14:18 JST Jeff Cliff

     in reply to

     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
     • mike805
     • Dr. Adam Ogieglo
     and it's a pity @aogieglo will not see this point being made
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