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> chemical imbalances.
is almost certainly a fake explanation - it explains nothing and there's no evidence for it
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@jeffcliff @KitlerIs6 @Nelenese @hidden @parker @jmw150 @bot @Moon depletion of seratonin and/or dopamine can cause mood changes, but eating well, exercising, and getting rest help to stabilize those chemical imbalances (probably more than any pill can do).
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eating well and exersize/rest is important but seratonin/dopamine levels are part of a broader dynamic system that determines mood
'imbalance' is a success word in this case - what defines 'balance' in that dynamic system is pretty much 100% handwaving
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@jeffcliff @KitlerIs6 @Moon @Nelenese @bot @hidden @jmw150 @parker there are bacteria in the gut that produce these chemicals. Not taking care of your gut health (eating well) can lead to a decrease in availability. There are also chemicals released during exercise that effect mood, and quality rest tends to have a greater impact on mood than pills.
I generally agree that the word imbalance is ambiguous, but I don't think it's entirely meaningless. If you less serotonin free it can have a negative impact on mood. Increasing serotonin levels **should** correct the problem (if a deficit is the cause). I am not convinced that SSRI drugs do this any better than a proper diet will.
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@jeffcliff @parker @jmw150 @KitlerIs6 @bot @Moon @Nelenese @thatguyoverthere The problem is claiming that the cause is imbalance when it's much more often the symptom
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I agree that is also a problem
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@jeffcliff @hidden @parker @jmw150 @KitlerIs6 @bot @Moon @Nelenese also when I was told I had a "chemical imbalance" when I was younger no one drew blood or did any kind of chemical tests. I don't know if they have changed how they diagnose things these days but at the time it was entirely without evidence.
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> If you less serotonin free it can have a negative impact on mood.
More likely : less serotonin free means your receptors gain sensitivity. Their *not* doing that is problematic. Focusing on the level itself, regardless how you address it is to almost completely miss the plot.
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@thatguyoverthere @parker @jmw150 @KitlerIs6 @bot @Moon @Nelenese @jeffcliff SSRI drugs don't do it better than placebo does, in fact :^)
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@hidden @parker @jmw150 @KitlerIs6 @bot @Moon @Nelenese @jeffcliff yeah I remember turmeric outperformed prozac in this area
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@jeffcliff @KitlerIs6 @Moon @Nelenese @bot @hidden @jmw150 @parker this is why I say diet and exercise are a large part of pulling yourself out of a depression. You don't need to fret over numbers, but poor gut health and low energy are likely contributing factors to unhappiness for many people. It's also the easiest thing for someone to do for themselves and actually see improvements.
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@thatguyoverthere @parker @jmw150 @KitlerIs6 @bot @Moon @Nelenese @jeffcliff Turmeric is very effective vs inflammation which is a common issue that can cause depression
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> I don't know if they have changed how they diagnose things these days
It's still almost 100% without evidence
The only people doing systematic tests of brain chemistry that would even get close to testing are neuropsych research labs and mad science outfits like neurallink
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@hidden @parker @jmw150 @KitlerIs6 @bot @Moon @Nelenese @jeffcliff inflammation is another thing that can be improved with better diet (avoiding over-consumption of omega-6 fats for example)
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@jeffcliff @hidden @parker @jmw150 @KitlerIs6 @bot @Moon @Nelenese @thatguyoverthere >mad science outfits like neurallink
I had someone try to recruit me for that shit.
"CMD how much neuroscience do you know?"
"I know a large amount about the retina and literally nothing else."
"...oh."
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When I got so into a stupid video game that I forgot to take my SSRIs, after the detox brain fog went away I suddenly had clarity and was like "wtf am I doing with my time I want to live a better life than this" and then I got a job, went back to college, graduated, and now I have a nice job that pays well. 🤷🏼♂️
Taking vitamin D has helped more than the pills have. My only point was that it's not a simple thing to figure out or get away from and people acting like "oh just live a better life" is an alternative is quite frankly insulting to anyone who has actually gone through depression.
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@KitlerIs6 @hidden @parker @jmw150 @bot @Moon @Nelenese @jeffcliff eat better is different from saying "live a better life" whatever that even means. Also, who knows if someone giving out advice you don't think will work for you has experienced or is experiencing depression? I think a lot of people have had experience with it, and it affects everyone differently. Some people have an easier time handling it. That might be partly due to a difference in severity or the source, or it could be because the thing they are recommending has had a positive impact on their quality of life. Anyone who says it's just a mind set can probably be ignored, but sometimes lifestyle changes do help and pretending they don't might push someone who could benefit from such a thing to not even try.
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Though @Moon if you watch porn or have any other type of easy dopamine addiction, getting rid of that helps a lot. Especially porn. Doesn't solve the problem but makes things a lot easier to handle.
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how...about the mitochondria in the retina
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@KitlerIs6 @hidden @parker @jmw150 @bot @Moon @Nelenese @jeffcliff it looks like you were replying to the statement that placebo beats SSRI drugs in clinical trials but maybe something got messed up.
> SSRI drugs don't do it better than placebo does, in fact :^)
I disagree that anything not diagnosed by a clinician is simply sadness. I was diagnosed as a kid and was on meds which never seemed to help (in fact I might argue they made it worse for me). I don't go to doctors who can confirm my "condition" now, but I have had varying degrees of depression to deal with throughout my life, and I have been able to make small changes in my lifestyle that have improved things. Drugs do sometimes seem to help people, but I think that most people could benefit from trying other things first.
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>I think a lot of people have had experience with it, and it affects everyone differently.
That's called being sad. That is different from the sort of clinical depression which gets you put on medication.
Look at the specific comment I was replying to. He wasn't just saying "take vitamin D" or anything (I actually was the one who said that) he was specifically acting like the problem with just something that could be fixed by generically "changing your lifestyle" or "leaving society".
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yeah pretty much
it's like saying "stop punching yourself in the face" to someone with aggressive cancer tumors
i mean it's good advice but
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Yup. TBH it's probably why therapists so often just stick them on meds instead of trying to fix the underlying causes (also because it does become a self sustaining cycle in your brain. Chemical balances or not it's like you have some depressive force in your head amplifying the bad/hopeless and muting the good)
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Hehehe, another AR-15 for my collection 😏
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Depressed? Boy do I have the solution for you. You see, the one truly at fault is a minor local politician who had the potential to to big with his radical ideas which go against the status quo.
Anyways, if you look under your bed you will find and AR-15 and further instructions on what to do about your depression. Remember that once it's all done we will move somewhere nice and be in love. Good luck.
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@KitlerIs6 @parker @jmw150 @bot @Moon @Nelenese @jeffcliff @thatguyoverthere I don't think anyone on Earth is just inherently depressed, unless they have brain damage or a tumour or something. But the causes can often be impossible to figure out, or very difficult to escape from (Such as pollution.)
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For me it was a way of thinking that developed from my situation and has been persistently difficult to get rid of ever since.
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@KitlerIs6 @hidden @jmw150 @bot @Moon @Nelenese @jeffcliff @thatguyoverthere The way I've heard it described is that when you stop cooming, the universe starts freaking out that you aren't getting laid (or laid substitute) and starts throwing women at you till the problem is solved.
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imho it doesn't work this way at all , it's more like the universe starts freaking out that you aren't getting laid and starts removing rationality from you branch by branch until you either overthrow your neighbours kingdom and steal their women , or are killed trying
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True, also you won't be into weird shit with is another benefit.
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@KitlerIs6 @hidden @jmw150 @bot @Moon @Nelenese @jeffcliff @thatguyoverthere Turns women who are 5s into 9s also.
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