Conversation

Notices

1. PJ (pj@qoto.org)'s status on Monday, 10-Apr-2023 05:23:44 JST PJ

   • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
   • 🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱
   • mike805
   • Luis M. Rocha

   @freemo

   Yes. That’s exactly my point.

   You should be, as an individual, protected from being killed, raped, or prevented to use a gun for legitimate reasons, but in this imperfect world you are not, so joining a group or club or some other kind of people’s #system gives you more protection than if you are facing all of that alone. In some way, these community-sanctioned associations can become a replacement for gangs.

   I think this applies to 2) as well. Instead of just shoving a gun into the victim’s hands and calling it done, set up a women’s shelter or some other safe community place they can use, or get a GPS tracker on the bozo. Yes, it will violate his human rights and hurt his feelings, but who cares.

   @thatguyoverthere @mike805 @lmrocha

   • 🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Monday, 10-Apr-2023 05:38:53 JST 🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     in reply to

     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
     • mike805
     • Luis M. Rocha

     @pj

     You are delusional (no disrespect intended) if you think this or any other place I will be safe from all violent acts.

     No I dont have a gun here, and my life is more at risk than if I was allowed one, and had one.

     @thatguyoverthere @mike805 @lmrocha

     Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: likes this.
   • PJ (pj@qoto.org)'s status on Monday, 10-Apr-2023 05:38:55 JST PJ

     in reply to

     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
     • 🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱
     • mike805
     • Luis M. Rocha

     @freemo
     Oh, there are plenty of countries like that. I believe you are in one right now. Didn’t bring a gun with you, did you? @thatguyoverthere @mike805 @lmrocha

   • 🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Monday, 10-Apr-2023 05:38:56 JST 🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     in reply to

     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
     • mike805
     • Luis M. Rocha

     @pj

     If you ever find or make a society where I am better protected from rape, murder, and violent acts without a gun than with a gun then i will be the first to join you there… For now that does not and never has existed.

     @thatguyoverthere @mike805 @lmrocha

   • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Tuesday, 11-Apr-2023 19:12:40 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

     in reply to

     • 🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱
     • mike805
     • Luis M. Rocha
     @lmrocha @freemo @pj @mike805 is gun violence the only kind of violence that matters? Focusing on a single category of violence and ignoring all others is a little strange, especially if the argument is that guns have an impact on other kinds of violence which is what I think freemo has been arguing pretty consistently from the beginning. If I didn't know any better I would think it's almost like you are trying to avoid actually confronting his argument.
   • Luis M. Rocha (lmrocha@qoto.org)'s status on Tuesday, 11-Apr-2023 19:12:41 JST Luis M. Rocha

     in reply to

     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
     • 🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱
     • mike805

     @freemo

     That is just completely false. Compute all statistics you want. Your odds of dying from a gun (suicide or homicide, together or separately) in Europe are lower than in the US. And if your US household has guns, you are much more likely to get shot than if it doesn't (after controlling for income, neighborhood, etc ). Guns don't make you or society safety. They just make you feel that way. But feeling is not science.

     Don't bother saying you computed this otherwise in some data savvy way, if you have not published it. And don't insult us with saying we don't know statistics. I have been doing AI and data science professionally since the late 80s with the resume and published work to back that up.

     @pj @thatguyoverthere @mike805

   • 🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Tuesday, 11-Apr-2023 22:11:41 JST 🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     in reply to

     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
     • mike805
     • Luis M. Rocha

     @thatguyoverthere

     Most people who argue political stuff arent really engaging, thinking, and learning.. they have these talking points they just repeat and because when they were with other people who agreed it soubded bulletproof so they stopped engaging and just parrot these points.. when you challenge them and point out the fkaws thry arent prepared so all thry can do is keep reverting to their unrelated talking points and hope no one notices the inconsistency.

     He keeps talki g about gu violence despite the fact that what he said i admitted as true from the first moment, I also pointed out why its entierly irrelevant to what i was actually saying, that last part though i guess he doesnt want to hear because then he woukd have to actually construct a valid defense to address it, and he probably doesnt have one.

     @mike805 @lmrocha @pj

     Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: likes this.
   • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Tuesday, 11-Apr-2023 22:24:10 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

     in reply to

     • 🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱
     • mike805
     • Luis M. Rocha
     @lmrocha @freemo @pj @mike805 lol it's like you really aren't paying attention. He never said that you were arguing an anti-vax position, but that you are using techniques he's run into when discussing the vaccine issue. Things like completely ignoring the actual argument he's making and relentlessly attacking a strawman he's already lit on fire.
   • Luis M. Rocha (lmrocha@qoto.org)'s status on Tuesday, 11-Apr-2023 22:24:11 JST Luis M. Rocha

     in reply to

     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
     • 🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱
     • mike805

     @freemo that is very silly. Vaccines demonstrably save many lives (with antibiotics the key reason for population explosion in xx century). In contrast there is zero, zilch, nada evidence that guns save lives ---the net effect in killings is demonstrably more death as you acknowledged, while the opposite is true for vaccines. You think they do, but, alas, no demonstration.

     This comparison with anti-vaxxers makes no sense at all

     @pj @thatguyoverthere @mike805

   • 🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Tuesday, 11-Apr-2023 22:24:12 JST 🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     in reply to

     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
     • mike805
     • Luis M. Rocha

     @lmrocha

     There you go with antivaxxer logic.. you are entierly right that in a society with guns your chance of dying by a gun is higher than in countries without guns. No one ever argued anything to the contrary.

     What you sayin is thr intellectually equivelant argument of "In a society where vaccines are illegal far fewer people die of vaccines...

     Well duh, irrelevant what you said, but duh ;)

     @pj @thatguyoverthere @mike805

   • 🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 12-Apr-2023 04:56:01 JST 🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     in reply to

     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
     • mike805
     • Luis M. Rocha

     @thatguyoverthere

     It really is hard to get a good faith discussion.. I guess that would risk having to accept that maybe its not as clear cut as the talking points suggest

     @mike805 @lmrocha @pj

     Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: likes this.
   • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 12-Apr-2023 04:56:13 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

     in reply to

     • 🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱
     • mike805
     • Luis M. Rocha
     @freemo @mike805 @lmrocha @pj true of so many topics these days (maybe forever?)
   • mike805 (mike805@fosstodon.org)'s status on Wednesday, 12-Apr-2023 07:48:56 JST mike805

     in reply to

     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
     • 🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱
     • Luis M. Rocha

     @thatguyoverthere @freemo @lmrocha @pj well the ancient Greeks summarized the logical fallacies. And probably about 90% of the media's content would fall into one of these categories.

     Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: likes this.
   • Rudolf Winestock (winestock@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 12-Apr-2023 07:50:43 JST Rudolf Winestock

     in reply to

     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
     • 🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱
     • mike805
     • Luis M. Rocha

     @mike805 @thatguyoverthere @freemo @lmrocha @pj Actually, the medieval Scholastics summarized logical fallacies as we know them. E.g., “argumentum ad hominem” is Medieval Latin (note the prepositional phrase).

     Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: likes this.
   • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 12-Apr-2023 09:57:41 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

     in reply to

     • 🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱
     • mike805
     • Luis M. Rocha
     • NotHelpfulUntilIAm🥤 🌛 🗄️
     @admitsWrongIfProven @freemo @pj @mike805 @lmrocha owning a firearm and being proficient with them really isn't any different than having a spare tire or a hammer in terms of preparedness except perhaps the consequences of not being prepared could be life or death. The situation which requires a tool you don't possess or have the skills to use is a bad situation. Sure you may never need it, and that's great.
     
     One use of firearms that this conversation has been mostly void of is hunting and protecting animals under your care from predators. No amount of perfection in humanity will resolve the need for weapons to exist.
   • NotHelpfulUntilIAm🥤 🌛 🗄️ (admitswrongifproven@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 12-Apr-2023 09:57:48 JST NotHelpfulUntilIAm🥤 🌛 🗄️

     in reply to

     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
     • 🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱
     • mike805
     • Luis M. Rocha

     @freemo @pj @thatguyoverthere @mike805 @lmrocha
     You will not be protected from any violent act by a gun in any but extreme cases.
     In the normal case, even in the violent country you are in, you are protected by human togetherness, understanding.
     If you ever need a gun for protection, you are already in a very bad place. I hope you never experience this.
     In any case, don’t think of the worst case as the only one. If you do that, you give up a lot of the positive things we think about as “humanity”.

   • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 12-Apr-2023 13:01:33 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

     in reply to

     • 🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱
     • mike805
     • Luis M. Rocha
     • NotHelpfulUntilIAm🥤 🌛 🗄️
     @admitsWrongIfProven @mike805 @freemo @lmrocha @pj maybe you aught to read it again.
   • NotHelpfulUntilIAm🥤 🌛 🗄️ (admitswrongifproven@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 12-Apr-2023 13:01:34 JST NotHelpfulUntilIAm🥤 🌛 🗄️

     in reply to

     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
     • 🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱
     • mike805
     • Luis M. Rocha

     @thatguyoverthere @mike805 @freemo @lmrocha @pj What are you talking about?
     I read your toot twice, and i have no idea what you try to say in relation to the conversation.

   • mike805 (mike805@fosstodon.org)'s status on Wednesday, 12-Apr-2023 13:02:06 JST mike805

     in reply to

     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
     • 🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱
     • Luis M. Rocha
     • NotHelpfulUntilIAm🥤 🌛 🗄️

     @admitsWrongIfProven @freemo @pj @thatguyoverthere @lmrocha yes it's the extreme case, both individually and collectively, that requires a gun. But if one of those cases comes up, a gun is often the only thing that will solve it.

     Moreover, those extreme cases are less likely to come up if guns are available.

     Switzerland doesn't get invaded for a couple of reasons. Terrain is one, armed citizenry is another.

     Police stations and gun stores rarely get robbed for the same reason.

     Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: likes this.
   • NotHelpfulUntilIAm🥤 🌛 🗄️ (admitswrongifproven@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 12-Apr-2023 13:04:55 JST NotHelpfulUntilIAm🥤 🌛 🗄️

     in reply to

     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
     • 🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱
     • mike805
     • Luis M. Rocha

     @pj @mike805 @freemo @thatguyoverthere @lmrocha seems right, but what do you respond to? Was there any claim to the opposite?
     This thread is messed up…

   • PJ (pj@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 12-Apr-2023 13:04:56 JST PJ

     in reply to

     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
     • 🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱
     • mike805
     • Luis M. Rocha
     • NotHelpfulUntilIAm🥤 🌛 🗄️

     @mike805 @admitsWrongIfProven @freemo @thatguyoverthere @lmrocha

     The proponents of “guns for all” cite two reasons as far as I can understand:

     1️⃣ Protection from violent individuals with or without guns, and
     2️⃣ Protection from a rogue government that wants to take your guns.

     In the first case, the regulation of gun ownership is not an issue, while in the second it is irrelevant because you are already in the middle of a civil war and, one way or another, you’ll find or be given a gun soon.

   • PJ (pj@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 12-Apr-2023 13:05:19 JST PJ

     in reply to

     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
     • 🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱
     • mike805
     • Luis M. Rocha
     • NotHelpfulUntilIAm🥤 🌛 🗄️

     @admitsWrongIfProven

     It was was “triggered” by @mike805 mention of “extreme cases” needing guns and the example of Switzerland where (if understand that correctly) each canton (state) has its own “well-regulated militia” (or was so in the past?) not sure.

     Anyway, responding to nothing in particular. Just a general observation, as having a gun registry seems to be a big issue in the US.

     @freemo @thatguyoverthere @lmrocha

   • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 12-Apr-2023 13:06:02 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

     in reply to

     • NotHelpfulUntilIAm🥤 🌛 🗄️
     @admitsWrongIfProven pretending reality doesn't exist in hope of Utopia is futile masturbation afaict
   • NotHelpfulUntilIAm🥤 🌛 🗄️ (admitswrongifproven@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 12-Apr-2023 13:06:03 JST NotHelpfulUntilIAm🥤 🌛 🗄️

     in reply to

     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

     @thatguyoverthere I see. Killing is eternal. May death come to all.

   • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 12-Apr-2023 19:52:34 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

     in reply to

     • NotHelpfulUntilIAm🥤 🌛 🗄️
     @admitsWrongIfProven are you asking me what utopia would be like if I could imagine it? I don't really see a point to the exercise. Seems more like a question for chatgpt
   • NotHelpfulUntilIAm🥤 🌛 🗄️ (admitswrongifproven@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 12-Apr-2023 19:52:35 JST NotHelpfulUntilIAm🥤 🌛 🗄️

     in reply to

     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

     @thatguyoverthere You'll never be alone again.
     You'll never die again.
     You'll never be born again.
     You'll forever be stuck here, in eternity.
     Our own human thing we do. What do you want that thing to be?

   • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 12-Apr-2023 19:56:21 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

     in reply to

     • NotHelpfulUntilIAm🥤 🌛 🗄️
     @admitsWrongIfProven funny enough there was an article going around saying there might not be enough meatsuits for ww3 because war aged men are fapping too much.
   • NotHelpfulUntilIAm🥤 🌛 🗄️ (admitswrongifproven@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 12-Apr-2023 19:56:22 JST NotHelpfulUntilIAm🥤 🌛 🗄️

     in reply to

     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

     @thatguyoverthere Yes, i like that too! Masturbation for all! Masturbate as the dispurv says, masturbate! masturbation nation!

   • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 12-Apr-2023 21:07:00 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

     in reply to

     • NotHelpfulUntilIAm🥤 🌛 🗄️
     @admitsWrongIfProven I never went off topic you just didn't comprehend what I said.
   • NotHelpfulUntilIAm🥤 🌛 🗄️ (admitswrongifproven@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 12-Apr-2023 21:07:01 JST NotHelpfulUntilIAm🥤 🌛 🗄️

     in reply to

     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

     @thatguyoverthere You go off topic, i can do so too. Happy to see the counter counter stirred something, at least.

   • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 12-Apr-2023 21:17:47 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

     in reply to

     • NotHelpfulUntilIAm🥤 🌛 🗄️
     @admitsWrongIfProven you joined a days long conversation. Why should it move to whatever you feel like talking about? Start a new thread.
   • NotHelpfulUntilIAm🥤 🌛 🗄️ (admitswrongifproven@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 12-Apr-2023 21:17:48 JST NotHelpfulUntilIAm🥤 🌛 🗄️

     in reply to

     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

     @thatguyoverthere Lol, you know better what i wanted to talk about than myself, i see.
     If you treat everyone like they were ChatGpt, people will look like ChatGpt to you.

   • NotHelpfulUntilIAm🥤 🌛 🗄️ (admitswrongifproven@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 12-Apr-2023 21:19:35 JST NotHelpfulUntilIAm🥤 🌛 🗄️

     in reply to

     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

     @thatguyoverthere The sensible suggestion would be to @ only the person i meant, specifically. I admit i messed up there, sorry.
     Post range is my weakness, i often leave it too public for what i mean to say. You were not the intended recipient.

     Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: likes this.
   • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 12-Apr-2023 21:20:58 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

     in reply to

     • NotHelpfulUntilIAm🥤 🌛 🗄️
     @admitsWrongIfProven it's sensible to say that a conversation is generally about a specific topic too. I don't even care if you go off topic, but don't tell me I did haha.
   • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 12-Apr-2023 21:22:16 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

     in reply to

     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
     • NotHelpfulUntilIAm🥤 🌛 🗄️
     @admitsWrongIfProven post scope can be tricky... Pleroma does a pretty good job of maintaining scope ime, but remembering to reduce scope is still a thing
   • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 12-Apr-2023 21:26:34 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

     in reply to

     • NotHelpfulUntilIAm🥤 🌛 🗄️
     @admitsWrongIfProven it happens. Does your ui maintain it once it's set? What I mean is, when replying to limited scope posts do you have to reset it each time or does it set the reply scope to match the op?
   • NotHelpfulUntilIAm🥤 🌛 🗄️ (admitswrongifproven@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 12-Apr-2023 21:26:35 JST NotHelpfulUntilIAm🥤 🌛 🗄️

     in reply to

     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

     @thatguyoverthere You know what... this answer, i made unlisted. Messed it up again until now ^^

     Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: likes this.
   • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 12-Apr-2023 21:54:49 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

     in reply to

     • NotHelpfulUntilIAm🥤 🌛 🗄️
     @admitsWrongIfProven I think the default behavior of using current scope is probably better wrt replies, but a user override/preference for default scope or forcing selection wouldn't hurt people who are comfortable with the way it is. Such a setting may already exist in some frontends. It would probably not be cool to just change that behavior at this point.
   • NotHelpfulUntilIAm🥤 🌛 🗄️ (admitswrongifproven@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 12-Apr-2023 21:54:50 JST NotHelpfulUntilIAm🥤 🌛 🗄️

     in reply to

     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

     @thatguyoverthere Yes, it does. The hard part is thinking about setting it at the start.
     I guess greying out the toot button until it is set once would help, but i'm not a web developer (using the browser interface).

     Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: likes this.
   • NotHelpfulUntilIAm🥤 🌛 🗄️ (admitswrongifproven@qoto.org)'s status on Wednesday, 12-Apr-2023 22:16:15 JST NotHelpfulUntilIAm🥤 🌛 🗄️

     in reply to

     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

     @thatguyoverthere Yeah, i'm talking about for me, didn't mean that it should be changed for anyone else.

     Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: likes this.
   • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 12-Apr-2023 22:18:26 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

     in reply to

     • NotHelpfulUntilIAm🥤 🌛 🗄️
     @admitsWrongIfProven if you are using pleromafe or soapbox maybe dig into the settings and see if there are defaults. I think pleroma fe has a bunch of user preferences (soapbox I dont think is quite as customizable per user but could be wrong)