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1. 🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Friday, 07-Apr-2023 21:53:39 JST 🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

   • mike805
   • Luis M. Rocha

   @lmrocha

   Nope, though I do understand why people who arent experts in data science can easily get mislead by the manipulation to try to sell that narrative... Sadly you will never see the data presented with good intellectually honest analysis (using granger causality rather than simple correlation whcih we all know is invalid when you cant control confounding variables)

   @mike805

   • mike805 (mike805@fosstodon.org)'s status on Sunday, 09-Apr-2023 19:19:54 JST mike805

     in reply to

     • Luis M. Rocha

     @lmrocha @freemo you are arguing this from a statistics point of view. You may well have a point. If you want to debate with gun rights supporters, please understand: many of us believe in natural rights which existed before civilization and which civilization cannot legitimately take away. Personal defense is one of those.

     People with that POV will not be swayed by numbers. Our response is, why was this not a problem 100 years ago? Personally, I suspect psychiatric drugs play a big role today.

   • Luis M. Rocha (lmrocha@qoto.org)'s status on Sunday, 09-Apr-2023 19:19:55 JST Luis M. Rocha

     in reply to

     • mike805

     @freemo @mike805 I'm talking about analysis based on pseudo randomized trials, which you can do comparing the times of introduction of regulations in different locations. You are the one assuming that when we speak of data we mean simple correlations. But again, you cannot underestimate that the gun lobby prevents the gathering of relevant data in the usa. They are not interested in serious data analysis.

     At the end of the day, your can justify your toys however you want. But American children are dying from guns much more than children in other rich countries. Taking my kids to school in the USA, everyday there was the ever present fear of a gun attack, with corresponding drills they had to be subjected to (you can only wonder the damage to mental health such insecurity caused them.) I am so happy they decided to go to college in Europe. We never worry about such a situation anymore. And that's how life should be.

   • 🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Sunday, 09-Apr-2023 19:19:56 JST 🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     in reply to

     • mike805
     • Luis M. Rocha

     @lmrocha @mike805

     Great then you should, at least in theory, be able to understand why sooften the data presented is intellectually dishonest. I myself am an expert/professional data scientist, so we shouldnt have any trouble having this conversation.

     Doesnt change the fact, that as I said, most people fall for the intellectually dishonest analysis, and by the sounds of it, you might too. But I will give you the benefit of the doubt.

   • Luis M. Rocha (lmrocha@qoto.org)'s status on Sunday, 09-Apr-2023 19:19:57 JST Luis M. Rocha

     in reply to

     • mike805

     @freemo @mike805 dude, I'm on several data science study sections at NIH, and on the editorial board of several days science journals.

   • mike805 (mike805@fosstodon.org)'s status on Sunday, 09-Apr-2023 19:20:22 JST mike805

     in reply to

     • Luis M. Rocha

     @freemo @lmrocha kids don't generally get shot in Japan. Yes that is because the Japanese public has no guns. Nuts occasionally get stabby in Japan, but kill fewer victims.

     But 100 years ago we had a society with guns everywhere (even kids owned them) and mass shootings were practically unknown. Gang violence yes. Personal revenge yes. Rage-fueled mass shootings, no.

     SSRIs are known to produce a hypomanic rage-monster state in some males under the age of 25. Most mass shooters were on SSRIs.

   • 🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Sunday, 09-Apr-2023 19:20:23 JST 🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     in reply to

     • mike805
     • Luis M. Rocha

     @mike805 @lmrocha I mean there was a problem 100 years ago just as there is now.... violence, if that is via a gun or countless other means is very much secondary to the violence problem.