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1. LukeAlmighty 🇨🇿 (lukealmighty@gameliberty.club)'s status on Thursday, 06-Apr-2023 18:38:50 JST LukeAlmighty 🇨🇿

   • NEETzsche

   @NEETzsche
   I don't get it. Why do all the open source fanboys LOVE to live in a perpetual state of denial? No matter how many times you explain the difficulty of using their stuff, instead of trying to figure out how to decrease it, they will spend their time just arguing that it's better that way.

   (triggered by your comments on xmpp and my perpetual fight to learn the BASICS of how to use Linux.)

   • Lina Inver:z:e :mur_close: :nuts: (lina@eientei.org)'s status on Thursday, 06-Apr-2023 18:38:42 JST Lina Inver:z:e :mur_close: :nuts:

     in reply to

     • NEETzsche
     @LukeAlmighty @NEETzsche that's why i don't use man :D:
   • LukeAlmighty 🇨🇿 (lukealmighty@gameliberty.club)'s status on Thursday, 06-Apr-2023 18:38:43 JST LukeAlmighty 🇨🇿

     in reply to

     • Lina Inver:z:e :mur_close: :nuts:
     • NEETzsche

     @lina @NEETzsche
     Man is about as instructive to average user as dripping an apple is descriptive of gravitational mechanics.

     If you know, it might seem obvious, but if you don't know, it's just a falling apple, not a measurable example of applied force that is constant, and applies to objects outside of the atmosphere with wildly different results...

   • Lina Inver:z:e :mur_close: :nuts: (lina@eientei.org)'s status on Thursday, 06-Apr-2023 18:38:44 JST Lina Inver:z:e :mur_close: :nuts:

     in reply to

     • NEETzsche
     @NEETzsche @LukeAlmighty yeah but i'm trying to point out that only absolute retards would expect people to know all relevant commands by heart when the very people that make them make sure there's a way for you to at least figure it out if you never ran it before or if you forgot what it does
   • NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Thursday, 06-Apr-2023 18:38:45 JST NEETzsche

     in reply to

     • Lina Inver:z:e :mur_close: :nuts:
     @lina @LukeAlmighty that's only helpful if you know which command to run in the first place
   • Lina Inver:z:e :mur_close: :nuts: (lina@eientei.org)'s status on Thursday, 06-Apr-2023 18:38:46 JST Lina Inver:z:e :mur_close: :nuts:

     in reply to

     • NEETzsche
     @NEETzsche @LukeAlmighty i mean that's why there's --help options for every command
   • NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Thursday, 06-Apr-2023 18:38:47 JST NEETzsche

     in reply to

     @LukeAlmighty df -h

     “I bet you feel stupid now for not just knowing that off the top of your head huh? :anintellectual:”

     No but seriously I sincerely expect Linux spergs to really want you to “just know” these commands even though that isn’t how this works at all

   • NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Thursday, 06-Apr-2023 18:38:48 JST NEETzsche

     in reply to
     @LukeAlmighty The thing with loonix in general is that, from a mathematical perspective, a great deal of it is legitimately simpler than windoze, look from a human cognitive perspective the exact opposite is true.
     
     A great example of this is the file system as you say. Except it's not really the file system itself, it's actually the way they organize the files in the system. That's what I imagine is the issue for you. I bet you're thinking things like: "where is the configuration file for this program I installed? What are the settings I can change in it that aren't listed in there by default? How do I get it to reload this file without rebooting the entire fucking box?" And so on.
     
     Am I right?
   • LukeAlmighty 🇨🇿 (lukealmighty@gameliberty.club)'s status on Thursday, 06-Apr-2023 18:38:48 JST LukeAlmighty 🇨🇿

     in reply to

     • NEETzsche

     @NEETzsche
     > where is the configuration file

     Yeah... that would be also good. But my favorite question is more like l: What disk is this file even on?

   • LukeAlmighty 🇨🇿 (lukealmighty@gameliberty.club)'s status on Thursday, 06-Apr-2023 18:38:49 JST LukeAlmighty 🇨🇿

     in reply to

     • NEETzsche

     @NEETzsche
     I just cannot get over that unbelievably complicated file system...

     But I'm working on it.

   • NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Thursday, 06-Apr-2023 18:38:50 JST NEETzsche

     in reply to
     @LukeAlmighty They're ideologues. They're like communists, Nazis, or libertarians. Richard Stallman has programmed a software ideology into them that they don't recognize as an ideology. They regard it as fact. You can't debate it because it's just reality, at least to them.
     
     So they bring up how their preferred thing is FOSS and yours isn't and they sincerely think that the debate basically ends there. It doesn't have to actually work as long as their shit is FOSS and your shit isn't.
     
     This, coming from someone who likes Linux and a lot of FOSS shit. In a lot of ways I prefer Linux to Windows but there are just so many compatibility issues that it's often not worth it. But that just won't register as an actual issue, either.
   • NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Thursday, 06-Apr-2023 18:39:30 JST NEETzsche

     in reply to

     • Lina Inver:z:e :mur_close: :nuts:
     @lina @LukeAlmighty I do :anintellectual:
     
     Lots of hidden nuggets in those man files. But I'm also a tech sperg. I'm not going to try to tell some guy who trades stocks for a living to bother with this shit
   • xianc78@gameliberty.club's status on Thursday, 06-Apr-2023 23:34:11 JST xianc78

     in reply to

     • :meru_B: b e a r d
     • NEETzsche

     @beardalaxy @LukeAlmighty @NEETzsche It's not so much the fact that Linux is FOSS but rather that it is a Unix-like operating system. Unix was meant for mainframes and servers, but some people ended up creating desktop environments for it.

     I think Linux is actually good either if you are just using it for web browsing and word processing (assuming you are using a distro like Ubuntu, Mint, or Pop_OS) or using it for advanced stuff like programming and systems administration. Unfortunately, there is no in-between, yet.

     I'd say that ReactOS and Haiku are more desktop user-friendly open source operating systems (ReactOS being a Windows compatible OS and Haiku being a BeOS compatible OS), but they are far from being usable right now. ReactOS has been in alpha since 1996 because they are trying to keep up with the latest version of Windows. I think right now, they are sticking to Windows 7 compatibility until it is virtually compatible with all Windows 7 hardware and software. Haiku is compatible with BeOS, which was an obscure desktop OS in the 90s. It's probably further along in development compared to ReactOS, but is still in beta state. Though, Godot apparently supports it.

   • :meru_B: b e a r d (beardalaxy@gameliberty.club)'s status on Thursday, 06-Apr-2023 23:34:12 JST :meru_B: b e a r d

     in reply to

     • NEETzsche

     @LukeAlmighty @NEETzsche linux, and pretty much any other FOSS out there, comes with a steep learning curve but once you get past that learning curve you end up with about the same amount of tinkering with shit you'd have on windows or other "proprietary" software once you start getting into more nitty gritty stuff. linux is nitty gritty by nature.

     it's not nearly as intuitive as windows is, though, hence the learning curve. the most intuitive linux experience you can find is ironically one that just mimics windows or mac.

     i like the idea of linux, and it is good to use for certain things for sure. but when i want shit to just work without *too* much finangling? why would i use linux over windows if i'm just playing a game? so i can brag i'm playing on open source software while i'm getting 20-30 FPS less and i had to add a bunch of launch arguments to make it work in the first place? not worth it. that's how most people see it because most people really don't need a computer to do anything more than basic tasks and video games.

   • Berkeley Berkman (berkberkman@bae.st)'s status on Friday, 07-Apr-2023 00:57:56 JST Berkeley Berkman

     in reply to

     • xianc78
     • :meru_B: b e a r d
     • NEETzsche
     @xianc78 @LukeAlmighty @beardalaxy @xianc78 @beardalaxy @LukeAlmighty @NEETzsche The manuals and user "guides" for GNU, Linux, Unix, and the programs made for them and the like just suck. Documenting them to get newfags to learn them is even more difficult than just writing the software because of the audience alone. For example, if you're interested in tinkering a popular Linux distro, you'll eventually have to learn systemd. An official beginner's guide, however, doesn't exist. You'll have to rely on a web search and an online wiki just to understand how to even configure it for the first time. One of my favorite beginner's guides is unironically Gentoo Linux. They have a HANDBOOK over just a complex wiki, even if it could be a little unorganized sometimes. Too bad there's no official handbook for most Linux distros.
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     xianc78 likes this.