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1. Machismo (zerglingman@freespeechextremist.com)'s status on Tuesday, 04-Apr-2023 20:29:47 JST Machismo

   • pistolero :thispersondoesnotexist:
   • ec670
   • [Moved] Neopolitan
   @tn5421 @p @ec670 My argument is that that's all https certs really need to do, too, so fuck jewgle and its little scheme there.
   • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: likes this.
   • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Tuesday, 04-Apr-2023 20:29:46 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

     in reply to

     • pistolero :thispersondoesnotexist:
     • ec670
     • [Moved] Neopolitan
     @Zerglingman @tn5421 @p @ec670 trust on first use is how gemini works. Self signed are trusted but if the cert changes users are notified.
   • Machismo (zerglingman@freespeechextremist.com)'s status on Tuesday, 04-Apr-2023 20:31:13 JST Machismo

     in reply to

     • pistolero :thispersondoesnotexist:
     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
     • ec670
     • [Moved] Neopolitan
     @thatguyoverthere @tn5421 @p @ec670 AP-over-gemini when
     Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: likes this.
   • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Tuesday, 04-Apr-2023 20:32:41 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

     in reply to

     • pistolero :thispersondoesnotexist:
     • ec670
     • [Moved] Neopolitan
     @Zerglingman @tn5421 @p @ec670 I think a while back I saw a gopher frontend but I might be making shit up.
   • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Tuesday, 04-Apr-2023 20:45:34 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

     in reply to

     • pistolero :thispersondoesnotexist:
     • ec670
     • [Moved] Neopolitan
     @Zerglingman @tn5421 @p @ec670 yeah I think federating over gemini would be tough because most servers are probably going to want to validate the certificate chain. All fedi software would have to start using trust on first use, but only if self signed because when a LE cert is replaced it would break federation. As a client I can make a decision to accept or reject a new certificate, but if puters are talking to each other figuring out that a new cert should be trusted will be more difficult without a signing authority. It would be possible to build a CA that fedi admins could opt into trusting, but you still have to deal with browsers, and you couldn't federate with anyone who didn't trust it.
   • Machismo (zerglingman@freespeechextremist.com)'s status on Tuesday, 04-Apr-2023 20:45:35 JST Machismo

     in reply to

     • pistolero :thispersondoesnotexist:
     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
     • ec670
     • [Moved] Neopolitan
     @thatguyoverthere @tn5421 @p @ec670 FE isn't responsible for federation though. And, sure, cool, but still sounds like webnigger behaviour.
     Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: likes this.
   •  (mint@ryona.agency)'s status on Tuesday, 04-Apr-2023 20:56:41 JST 

     in reply to

     • pistolero :thispersondoesnotexist:
     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
     • ec670
     • [Moved] Neopolitan
     @Zerglingman @tn5421 @p @ec670 @thatguyoverthere >Make our own AP with blackjack and hookers and it uses its own dedicated ports.
     You've just XMPP.
   • Machismo (zerglingman@freespeechextremist.com)'s status on Tuesday, 04-Apr-2023 20:56:42 JST Machismo

     in reply to

     • pistolero :thispersondoesnotexist:
     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
     • ec670
     • [Moved] Neopolitan
     @thatguyoverthere @tn5421 @p @ec670 Again, fediCA doesn't actually solve the problem of too much power in one place. I don't know why this direction keeps appearing, it's obviously strictly worse than current.
     The thing is that I'm not proposing throwing out cert signing, not at all. I'm offering a self-signed cert because web of trust has to start somewhere. The reason changing certs with a CA doesn't prompt a warning is because you're only trusting the cert due to the authority guaranteeing it in the first place, and *their* cert hasn't changed (iterate as much as necessary).
     
     Of course federating over gemini requires that the server supports it, so differences in SSL needing specific support is... You're already at the point of specific support in the software. Nothing of note after that.
     Anyway, I'm moving towards "http-based protocols aren't real protocols anyway". Make our own AP with blackjack and hookers and it uses its own dedicated ports.
   • Machismo (zerglingman@freespeechextremist.com)'s status on Tuesday, 04-Apr-2023 21:00:41 JST Machismo

     in reply to

     • 
     • pistolero :thispersondoesnotexist:
     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
     • ec670
     • [Moved] Neopolitan
     @mint @tn5421 @thatguyoverthere @p @ec670 How does that figure? I find XMPP really bad at discovery.
   •  (mint@ryona.agency)'s status on Tuesday, 04-Apr-2023 21:00:41 JST 

     in reply to

     • pistolero :thispersondoesnotexist:
     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
     • ec670
     • [Moved] Neopolitan
     @Zerglingman @tn5421 @p @ec670 @thatguyoverthere Yeah, didn't think through the lack of context fetching by third parties.
   •  (mint@ryona.agency)'s status on Tuesday, 04-Apr-2023 21:35:44 JST 

     in reply to

     • NEETzsche
     • pistolero :thispersondoesnotexist:
     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
     • [Moved] Neopolitan
     @NEETzsche @tn5421 @Zerglingman @p @thatguyoverthere We're talking protocols here, not UX.
   • NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Tuesday, 04-Apr-2023 21:35:45 JST NEETzsche

     in reply to

     • 
     • pistolero :thispersondoesnotexist:
     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
     • [Moved] Neopolitan

     All👏FOSS👏chat👏services👏are👏garbage.

   • NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Tuesday, 04-Apr-2023 21:41:25 JST NEETzsche

     in reply to

     • 
     • pistolero :thispersondoesnotexist:
     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
     • [Moved] Neopolitan

     At least you acknowledge that the UX for FOSS chat services is garbage. But even the protocols themselves are pretty trash. XMPP in particular considering how much “modding” you have to do just to get it to run in a way that is worth a shit, but Matrix’s protocol has its own issues, like for example storing its events in a DAG.

      likes this.
   •  (mint@ryona.agency)'s status on Tuesday, 04-Apr-2023 21:44:42 JST 

     in reply to

     • NEETzsche
     • pistolero :thispersondoesnotexist:
     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
     • [Moved] Neopolitan
     @NEETzsche @tn5421 @Zerglingman @p @thatguyoverthere X in XMPP means "extensible", it's built to be a barebones protocol that can be extended with XEPs. That, of course, leads to fragmentation and lack of consensus between software developers, but whether this issue is large enough to be a dealbreaker is debatable. Linux with all its distros is the same.
   • Machismo (zerglingman@freespeechextremist.com)'s status on Tuesday, 04-Apr-2023 21:47:03 JST Machismo

     in reply to

     • 
     • NEETzsche
     • pistolero :thispersondoesnotexist:
     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
     • [Moved] Neopolitan
     @mint @tn5421 @thatguyoverthere @p @NEETzsche https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/cs-2023.html
      likes this.
   • iced quinnsmas :blobcatsanta: (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Tuesday, 04-Apr-2023 21:51:31 JST iced quinnsmas :blobcatsanta:

     in reply to

     • 
     • NEETzsche
     • pistolero :thispersondoesnotexist:
     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
     • [Moved] Neopolitan
     @NEETzsche @tn5421 @Zerglingman @p @mint @thatguyoverthere something to offer like
     actually having multiple independent implementations (people tend to give up fighting synapse for compatibility) :ablobcatgooglytenor:
   • NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Tuesday, 04-Apr-2023 21:51:32 JST NEETzsche

     in reply to

     • 
     • pistolero :thispersondoesnotexist:
     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
     • iced quinnsmas :blobcatsanta:
     • [Moved] Neopolitan

     I mean, if XMPP had something to offer other than being FOSS, I’d probably use it. Right now I use Matrix as a hub but the clients are all garbahj

   • iced quinnsmas :blobcatsanta: (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Tuesday, 04-Apr-2023 21:51:33 JST iced quinnsmas :blobcatsanta:

     in reply to

     • 
     • NEETzsche
     • pistolero :thispersondoesnotexist:
     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
     • [Moved] Neopolitan
     @Zerglingman @tn5421 @p @NEETzsche @mint @thatguyoverthere it's fine his hobby is just hating on XMPP.
     
     he's probably a discord partner :blobcatcoy:
   • Machismo (zerglingman@freespeechextremist.com)'s status on Tuesday, 04-Apr-2023 21:51:34 JST Machismo

     in reply to

     • 
     • NEETzsche
     • pistolero :thispersondoesnotexist:
     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
     • [Moved] Neopolitan
     @NEETzsche @thatguyoverthere @p @tn5421 @mint And here's the village clown. Move along, we care not for your antics.
   • NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Tuesday, 04-Apr-2023 21:51:43 JST NEETzsche

     in reply to

     • 
     • pistolero :thispersondoesnotexist:
     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
     • [Moved] Neopolitan

     Well if we take a “let the market decide” analysis of how much of a dealbreaker it is we find that basically nobody outside of tech spergs and paranoid political dissidents use XMPP. You can attribute some of this to the network effect for sure, but commercial services like Discord, Snapchat, and Telegram don’t janny enough normal people to merit actually using any of this stuff.

     I get the theory behind extensibility and XEPs but in practice it’s a pain in the ass. And that absolutely is a dealbreaker to anybody who intends to correspond with someone who doesn’t have a computer science background.

      likes this.
   • Machismo (zerglingman@freespeechextremist.com)'s status on Tuesday, 04-Apr-2023 21:52:19 JST Machismo

     in reply to

     • 
     • NEETzsche
     • pistolero :thispersondoesnotexist:
     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
     • iced quinnsmas :blobcatsanta:
     • [Moved] Neopolitan
     @icedquinn @tn5421 @thatguyoverthere @p @mint @NEETzsche Element? Both are pretty forgettable anyway. Matrix is actually pretty ok when you pretend those two (and morg) don't exist.
   • :anarchy.png: Brisingr :anime_omg: (yukari_kajiwara@detroitriotcity.com)'s status on Tuesday, 04-Apr-2023 22:02:01 JST :anarchy.png: Brisingr :anime_omg:

     in reply to

     • 
     • NEETzsche
     • pistolero :thispersondoesnotexist:
     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
     • [Moved] Neopolitan
     @NEETzsche @tn5421 @Zerglingman @p @mint @thatguyoverthere we basically need an easy to use messaging platform without the needs to use a phone number to register and freedom of speech. Currently Matrix is the only one which excels in that.
   • NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Tuesday, 04-Apr-2023 22:02:10 JST NEETzsche

     in reply to

     • 
     • pistolero :thispersondoesnotexist:
     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
     • [Moved] Neopolitan
     • :anarchy.png: Brisingr :anime_omg:

     Matrix isn’t as bad as it was but the flagship client – Element – really is clunky, even now. And it’s routine for Matrix to lag out if you try to join a channel that’s on another homeserver. It’s not like Discord where you click one button and you’re in within a couple seconds.