Conversation

Notices

1. dobó istván (istvan@noauthority.social)'s status on Friday, 27-Dec-2024 02:31:03 JST dobó istván

   • 𝔧𝔞𝔢

   @jae

   • pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Friday, 27-Dec-2024 02:31:02 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • 𝔧𝔞𝔢
     @istvan @jae
     internet2021.gif
     qugalet :win3_cdrom: likes this.
   • 𝔧𝔞𝔢 (jae@wizard.casa)'s status on Friday, 27-Dec-2024 02:31:07 JST 𝔧𝔞𝔢

     in reply to

     • pistolero

     @p @istvan

     qugalet :win3_cdrom: likes this.
   • pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Friday, 27-Dec-2024 02:31:08 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • 𝔧𝔞𝔢
     @jae @istvan
     overback.png
     qugalet :win3_cdrom: and † top dog :pedomustdie: like this.
   • frogzone@wizard.casa's status on Friday, 27-Dec-2024 06:32:00 JST frogzone

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     • 𝔧𝔞𝔢

     @jae @p cloudflare is an extortion racket, no different from the mafia, but backed by wallstreet banksters. there is nothing special about it. it is so unremarkable that the legacy media are too scared to talk about it, lest they prompt people to ask questions about why it is so endemic.

   • 𝔧𝔞𝔢 (jae@wizard.casa)'s status on Friday, 27-Dec-2024 06:32:00 JST 𝔧𝔞𝔢

     in reply to

     • frogzone
     • pistolero

     @frogzone @p

     > cloudflare is an extortion racket, no different from the mafia, but backed by wallstreet banksters.

     no doubt.

     > there is nothing special about it.

     they do some interesting engineering things. the service in general, no it's nothing special it's a global proxy and edge cache setup. but the mechanics behind it are fascinating.

   • frogzone@wizard.casa's status on Friday, 27-Dec-2024 06:32:01 JST frogzone

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     • 𝔧𝔞𝔢

     @p @jae i can see the #bankaccounts going up in cloudflare smoke, this is clearly an accurate premonition of the internet in 2021 (and beyond)

   • 𝔧𝔞𝔢 (jae@wizard.casa)'s status on Friday, 27-Dec-2024 06:32:01 JST 𝔧𝔞𝔢

     in reply to

     • frogzone
     • pistolero

     @frogzone @p the tragic part is, from a scientific and engineering point of view cloudflare is amazing. it just doesn't represent the internets i'm aligned with.

   • frogzone@wizard.casa's status on Friday, 27-Dec-2024 06:32:24 JST frogzone

     in reply to

     • Phantasm
     • pistolero
     • 𝔧𝔞𝔢

     @jae @p @phnt its unremarkable. if i was backstopped with a bottomless pit of money by PRISM and banksters to commit atrocities, and benefit by building the tools of mass surveillance to handle those atrocities, u would not call me fascinating, but disgusting.

     >intent

     the media know about cloudflare, amazon and akamai, they are just too scared to do their actual job, or too corrupt

     >don't need to build your own CDN

     last i checked the internet had ISP and independent servers, if there were remarkable actors in this space they would be offering freedom-respecting software and hardware (FRSH) to handle the modern web, i understand that cf do provide tools but they are not FRS. if fedi wasn't so packed with big tech stockholm syndrome and sycophancy we would have worked out that CDNs are a bad idea, and something like (#)DCN (Decentralised Content Nodes) are needed.

     I understand that only one person is working on something like this, and i am wishing them well on it.

   • † top dog :pedomustdie: (dcc@annihilation.social)'s status on Friday, 27-Dec-2024 19:48:48 JST † top dog :pedomustdie:

     in reply to

     • Phantasm
     • frogzone
     • pistolero
     • 𝔧𝔞𝔢
     @p @phnt @frogzone @jae Ipfs in a nutshell:
     98.png
   • Phantasm (phnt@fluffytail.org)'s status on Friday, 27-Dec-2024 19:48:49 JST Phantasm

     in reply to

     • frogzone
     • pistolero
     • 𝔧𝔞𝔢

     @frogzone @p @jae

     last i checked the internet had ISP and independent servers

     Backbone ISPs just provide transit and "domestic"/"business" ISPs offer you that transit as a service along with DNS and whatnot. They are irrelevant to the discussion of CDNs. They are not prepared to provide you with CDNs or DDoS protection, nor is their infra.

     Independent servers are another thing. Those can do both, but try convincing somebody that is truly independent to provide those services. Today's Internet is mostly no longer "independent" in almost any definition. Most of the backbone is handled by two or three companies that can anytime decide to just nullroute your ASN, if you own one, or drop your BGP announce and you are stuck talking to basically nobody. The network itself is no longer a few cables mostly used for universities.

     if fedi wasn't so packed with big tech stockholm syndrome and sycophancy we would have worked out that CDNs are a bad idea

     CDNs are currently the only way to divert unnecessary traffic from main servers that works. If you need some network resiliency and transfer speeds that are acceptable to your clients around the world, you just need them.

     This server is hosted in NY, USA and across the pond I can at most pull 8MB/s of bandwidth. Now let's say that I have 30 users that are in Europe just sitting at their computer looking through the timelines. That is probably enough to completely saturate that available bandwidth. I've also recently switched ISPs and I magically gained ~7MB/s (previously max bandwidth was around 1.5MB/s), probably because this ISP is peered somewhere else and has a better connection.

     In this case at least a cache server somewhere in Europe would be needed to off-load the media proxy traffic from the main server in NY. This is the ideal use case for CDNs.

     (#)DCN (Decentralised Content Nodes) are needed.

     First of all, that sounds like something from the crypto world, so I'm instantly 50% more like to think it's some non-sensical thing. Second of all, what even is this and who then owns the "content" on the nodes. As a company, I could understand that some of my cacheable data lives on some random CF server, but it might be unacceptable to store that on someone else's server. With CF/Akamai/... you are trusting one company, with your own CDN you trust only yourself and with a DCN, you are trusting every node? Privacy laws, especially EU ones, might make this a new technology that is completely DoA.

     Also it seems that IPFS could be used for that already, so why even bother making something new.

     But enough said, the post I replied to wasn't even about CDNs.

     Also I can completely understand that anyone hates CF for making everyone click on the boats, when they go to visit random website.

     Same thing with their WAF and other CF control panel settings that like to completely mess with traffic.

     I also can understand if someone hates them, if they are used as a gateway/tunnel to the real server (CF IP in DNS->filtering, WAF, boats,... -> real server).

     Or just their scummy behavior.

     I hate them for all of the above. But I cannot understand when somebody doesn't like them for the technology they've built, because they don't share it with everyone.

     Thank you for reading my blog post and I'm sorry for my Pete long post syndrome.

   • pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Friday, 27-Dec-2024 19:48:49 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • Phantasm
     • frogzone
     • 𝔧𝔞𝔢
     @phnt @frogzone @jae
     
     > Also it seems that IPFS could be used for that already, so why even bother making something new.
     
     :objection1::objection2: Because IPFS completely botched the execution at every step and their software blows. Something like it has a shot at being good.
     † top dog :pedomustdie: likes this.
   • pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Saturday, 28-Dec-2024 17:59:19 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • † top dog :pedomustdie:
     • Phantasm
     • frogzone
     • 𝔧𝔞𝔢
     @dcc @frogzone @jae @phnt
     windows-files.jpg
     † top dog :pedomustdie: likes this.
   • 𝔧𝔞𝔢 (jae@wizard.casa)'s status on Saturday, 28-Dec-2024 17:59:29 JST 𝔧𝔞𝔢

     in reply to

     • † top dog :pedomustdie:
     • Phantasm
     • frogzone
     • pistolero

     @dcc @phnt @frogzone @p that's how it goes.

     p: "here you go, here's a pdf of plan9 doc from years ago"
     jae: "nice, i can't wait"
     p: "it's good, you'll like it"
     jae: "hey, happy birthday, i'm still waiting on that document"

     † top dog :pedomustdie: likes this.
   • 𝔧𝔞𝔢 (jae@wizard.casa)'s status on Saturday, 28-Dec-2024 18:00:01 JST 𝔧𝔞𝔢

     in reply to

     • Phantasm
     • frogzone
     • pistolero

     @p @phnt @frogzone i have. and i cried sweet baby ray bbq sauce out of my eyes

     † top dog :pedomustdie: likes this.
   • 𝔧𝔞𝔢 (jae@wizard.casa)'s status on Saturday, 28-Dec-2024 18:00:02 JST 𝔧𝔞𝔢

     in reply to

     • Phantasm
     • frogzone
     • pistolero

     @p @phnt @frogzone ipfs in theory is something special. but I l don't understand their design decisions. the current implementation feels like driving a yugo

   • pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Saturday, 28-Dec-2024 18:00:02 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • Phantasm
     • frogzone
     • 𝔧𝔞𝔢
     @jae @phnt @frogzone You should try tracking down a bug when you find it. It's worse than a Yugo, it's like driving an entire USSR.
   • Phantasm (phnt@fluffytail.org)'s status on Saturday, 28-Dec-2024 18:00:15 JST Phantasm

     in reply to

     • frogzone
     • pistolero
     • 𝔧𝔞𝔢
     @frogzone @p @jae
     
     I've got 4 posts (excluding this thread) in total about DCN/Glutplug from hashtags and 3 of those were from you and one of the author's(?) accounts (dsfgs?) has nothing related and the instance hosting the account died a year ago. Kagi returns nothing useful. So that's the extent I know about this thing. No website, source repo, no mention on how it works, nada.
     
     >Privacy? is uses i2p
     
     From this thread, I assume, that the purpose of it is to store data that can be retrieved later and use it as way to serve files in a decentralized way. That part is fine. But... I2P is an anonymization layer on top of clearnet; using an anonymization network for storing and retrieving data with heavy traffic that does not need to exist is something I would call highly unethical. Same as torrenting over Tor. That kind of traffic usually isn't welcome. Yes, I know that some torrent clients support I2P, but I still think that using I2P for torrents that aren't highly sensitive (leaks) in nature just shouldn't be done.
     
     I just want to cache some data on the edge, throw that data away after a set period of time and that's it. Ideally this wouldn't be built on top of I2P and it would just be another protocol where the website just references a hash of that data and you fetch that data from multiple nodes. There's no need to go through multiple hops to receive that data. From the side of the company using this, it achieves literally nothing other than putting their data on nodes from other people, which I guess saves cost. Also how do you reward people for hosting your shit. The advantage of speed isn't there, which usually is the main thing you build a CDN for. And for the customer, they are basically experiencing "Tor" speeds.
     
     I think that this is a sound idea, but it is just executed poorly and doesn't make sense for the purpose you probably meant when you said that CDNs are a bad idea and DCNs are better. From this thread it literally seems to me that it is just an IPFS-like protocol running over I2P.
     
     If you want to avoid censorship, make that content available anonymously and want your content to be hosted almost indefinitely, than it makes. It just doesn't make sense in the context you are arguing for.
     † top dog :pedomustdie: likes this.
   • frogzone@wizard.casa's status on Saturday, 28-Dec-2024 18:00:16 JST frogzone

     in reply to

     • Phantasm
     • pistolero
     • 𝔧𝔞𝔢

     @phnt @p @jae there are a host of really bad design choices in the technology that make cloudflare worse than cancer.

     cancer isn't guided by "humans" or "humanoids" like cloudflare is.

     (#)DCN is nothing to do with blockchain, is activity pub centric. Was (#)GlutPlug but that name is too suggestive and the person pumping it disappeared and so the name (#)DCN is the one i use. just look it up. i dont want to say to much but i understand someone is working on it.

     Privacy? is uses i2p

     control? the main server(s) send an integrity hash that the content must adhere to.

     just search the hashtag for more info, i can tag u in a post if u need :)

     THAT is how engineering works, bad architecture is BAD engineering, full stop. you can run a ring around saturn but if is bad architecture is bad design. and cloudflare is not just bad design is, book of revelations, is the antichrist that is trying to be bigger than god. if i die my spirit will not rest till cloudflare, cloudfront and akamai is destroyed and world knows its evil

   • † top dog :pedomustdie: (dcc@annihilation.social)'s status on Saturday, 28-Dec-2024 18:02:19 JST † top dog :pedomustdie:

     in reply to

     • Phantasm
     • frogzone
     • pistolero
     • 𝔧𝔞𝔢
     @phnt @p @frogzone @jae > be hosted almost indefinitely
     Ah yes the classic human problem, there is no fix to this problem sadly
     1630774655955.jpg
   • pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Sunday, 29-Dec-2024 04:12:02 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • † top dog :pedomustdie:
     • Phantasm
     • frogzone
     • 𝔧𝔞𝔢
     @frogzone @dcc @phnt @jae P2P is great but it's not a substitute for the internet having a backbone. The packets have to get there somehow.
     † top dog :pedomustdie: likes this.
   • frogzone@wizard.casa's status on Sunday, 29-Dec-2024 04:12:03 JST frogzone

     in reply to

     • † top dog :pedomustdie:
     • Phantasm
     • pistolero
     • 𝔧𝔞𝔢

     @dcc @phnt @p @jae

       HOT TIP no.#1

     some of the greatest jornalists and publishers use torrents for long term availability of content for the betterment of humanity.... p2p is the best chance we have; to swarm like starlings to the good.

   • frogzone@wizard.casa's status on Monday, 30-Dec-2024 06:25:32 JST frogzone

     in reply to

     • † top dog :pedomustdie:
     • Phantasm
     • pistolero
     • 𝔧𝔞𝔢

     @p @dcc @phnt @jae
     >If you want any kind of internet, there will be a backbone.
     u keep conflating a backbone with datacenters.

     we dont need one corporation serving the worlds traffic for a backbone, pls stop.

     i dont have time to read the rest rn. will reply if needed later

   • frogzone@wizard.casa's status on Monday, 30-Dec-2024 06:25:33 JST frogzone

     in reply to

     • † top dog :pedomustdie:
     • Phantasm
     • pistolero
     • 𝔧𝔞𝔢

     @jae @dcc @phnt @p
     > Yeah, mostly frogzone suggests P2P as a replacement for datacenters and routers and they're unrelated.
     datacenters being replaced is correct and a good goal. i want the internet the way it was designed to be, with the endpoints smart and the transport layers dumb, sue me

     the rest is apologisia for poking fun at an active genocide. fwict. you dont need to make a pictured meme for every post either, screams privilege and a person w too much time on their hands than they know what to do with

   • pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Monday, 30-Dec-2024 06:25:33 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • † top dog :pedomustdie:
     • Phantasm
     • frogzone
     • 𝔧𝔞𝔢
     @frogzone @dcc @phnt @jae
     
     > i want the internet the way it was designed to be, with the endpoints smart and the transport layers dumb, sue me
     
     Cars are smarter than roads, but a freeway is still a more efficient method of travel than a beeline.
     
     If you want any kind of internet, there will be a backbone. Someone has to know how to route the packets and to where. You don't need to believe me: ask anyone that knows BGP to tell you how routing works.
     
     > the rest is apologisia for poking fun at an active genocide.
     
     No, I poked fun at people that are still bought into the Cold War myth that this is the most important genocide and the partisan version that says it's one-sided.
     
     I don't need to make an apologia for jokes about genocide: show me your sacred cow and I will eat steak.
     
     > screams privilege
     
     Privilege is picking a side in a war that has nothing to do with you while ignoring all of the other wars. People affected by a war don't get to pick a side or pick which war matters: they're born on one side of an active conflict. Privilege is arguing about why other people on the internet have to pick a side or complaining that they picked the wrong one. Privilege is being able to close the tab because you didn't want to finish watching the beheading video instead of bowing and scraping to the guys that do the beheading because it's your goddamn town. You have a goddamn internet connection and enough food to eat and your monocle pops out because someone made a joke.
     
     > you dont need to make a pictured meme for every post either
     
     :tedk: None of this is *necessary*. None of us will die if we log off forever.
     ivegotamemeforthis.mp4
   • 𝔧𝔞𝔢 (jae@wizard.casa)'s status on Monday, 30-Dec-2024 06:25:34 JST 𝔧𝔞𝔢

     in reply to

     • † top dog :pedomustdie:
     • Phantasm
     • frogzone
     • pistolero

     @p @dcc @phnt @frogzone

     > Yeah, mostly frogzone suggests P2P as a replacement for datacenters and routers and they're unrelated.

     that's like visiting france, without the accordion, baguette, and hairy armpits on the ladies

   • 𝔧𝔞𝔢 (jae@wizard.casa)'s status on Monday, 30-Dec-2024 06:25:35 JST 𝔧𝔞𝔢

     in reply to

     • † top dog :pedomustdie:
     • Phantasm
     • frogzone
     • pistolero

     @p @dcc @phnt @frogzone

     > P2P is great but it's not a substitute for the internet having a backbone. The packets have to get there somehow.

     i am the choir, you are the preacher. the plumbing is a given. unless we're doing p2p lan-party style, which by that time means we're resurfacing sneakernet but calling it velcronet

   • pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Monday, 30-Dec-2024 06:25:35 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • † top dog :pedomustdie:
     • Phantasm
     • frogzone
     • 𝔧𝔞𝔢
     @jae @dcc @phnt @frogzone Yeah, mostly frogzone suggests P2P as a replacement for datacenters and routers and they're unrelated.
     youpeopleknowalotabouttrucks.jpg
   • pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Monday, 30-Dec-2024 06:26:23 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • † top dog :pedomustdie:
     • Phantasm
     • frogzone
     • 𝔧𝔞𝔢
     @frogzone @dcc @phnt @jae
     
     > u keep conflating a backbone with datacenters.
     
     Where do you think the routers are going to go? Your house?
     
     > we dont need one corporation serving the worlds traffic for a backbone, pls stop.
     
     We don't have one, we have a few. We should have more, but we do need someone that can move a petabyte in real-time.
     † top dog :pedomustdie: likes this.
   • 🍤 (cereal@shitposter.world)'s status on Tuesday, 31-Dec-2024 06:57:26 JST 🍤

     in reply to

     • † top dog :pedomustdie:
     • Phantasm
     • frogzone
     • pistolero
     • 𝔧𝔞𝔢
     @p @dcc @phnt @frogzone @jae according to the CIA, everywhere is just in their neighborhood, so yes, that means "no Datacenters".
   • pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Tuesday, 31-Dec-2024 06:57:27 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • † top dog :pedomustdie:
     • Phantasm
     • frogzone
     • 𝔧𝔞𝔢
     @frogzone @dcc @phnt @jae "I don't want all the datacenters next to the CIA and NSA" is not the same as "no datacenters".
   • frogzone@wizard.casa's status on Tuesday, 31-Dec-2024 06:57:28 JST frogzone

     in reply to

     • † top dog :pedomustdie:
     • Phantasm
     • pistolero
     • 𝔧𝔞𝔢

     @p @dcc @phnt @jae
     >Where do you think the routers are going to go?
     in a variety of strategic and convenient locations, and not (basically) all (70%) in DataCenterAlley Virginia, CIA

     >we should have more (diversity of communications providers)
     hail MARY, we have arrived

     we do need someone that can move a petabyte in real-time?
     i dont know bout "someone" and "petabytes" but we do need a resilient network of pipes, to shove i2p and tor traffic into, imo

   • frogzone@wizard.casa's status on Tuesday, 31-Dec-2024 06:57:49 JST frogzone

     in reply to

     • † top dog :pedomustdie:
     • Phantasm
     • pistolero
     • 𝔧𝔞𝔢
     • 🍤

     @cereal @dcc @phnt @p @jae
     >that means "no Datacenters".
     agree.... i think the term #datacenters gaslights us into accepting an oppressive version of the internet, where we have to basically offer our machine to the govt or corporation that owns the "datacenter", to host a thing.... we should call them #datatransits or #routerCenters or something, no servers their

     and then we have #servers at the end points, at the nearby businesses and homes and such, call me a dreamer, but i think "datacenters" are inherently problematic.