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1. iced quinnsmas :blobcatsanta: (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Sunday, 17-Nov-2024 11:44:03 JST iced quinnsmas :blobcatsanta:
   throwing the poster in the pit for the libertarians are nazis bit
   but the ghost is cute
   
   RE: https://detroitriotcity.com/objects/57619ad6-8e78-4973-85da-c91187a1ad5a
   • xianc78@gameliberty.club's status on Sunday, 17-Nov-2024 11:44:01 JST xianc78

     in reply to

     • New World Indigo

     @Indigo @icedquinn I agree that he is a troll, but one time he tried to justify his claim with some Ayn Rand quote about Native Americans.

   • New World Indigo (indigo@shitposter.world)'s status on Sunday, 17-Nov-2024 11:44:02 JST New World Indigo

     in reply to
     @icedquinn Based on mine and other people I know's interactions with them, I am reasonably confident that this individual is a troll.
   • xianc78@gameliberty.club's status on Sunday, 17-Nov-2024 12:14:17 JST xianc78

     in reply to

     • New World Indigo

     @Indigo @icedquinn I honestly don't care. I don't think it's fair to strawman libertarianism with any of her quotes because while she had a lot of influence on libertarianism, the fact of the matter is is that she never called herself a libertarian (in fact she even opposed it) and Libertarianism and Objectivism are ultimately separate ideologies.

     From what I understand, pure-Objectivists don't even believe in private charity because that goes against someone's self-interests while Libertarians are okay with that as long as it's voluntary. To me, it just seems like her view is the embodiment of most strawman arguments against libertarianism: the idea that libertarians are (or want to be) anti-social hermits who are against altruism.

     Personally, I never read any of her works. I've been told that her works are hard to read and understand, and those who have claimed to have read them are just LARPing.

   • New World Indigo (indigo@shitposter.world)'s status on Sunday, 17-Nov-2024 12:14:18 JST New World Indigo

     in reply to

     • xianc78
     @xianc78 @icedquinn Just fire back with one of her quotes about abortion; those manage to piss off both left and right-wingers in equal measure.
   • iced quinnsmas :blobcatsanta: (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Sunday, 17-Nov-2024 13:13:58 JST iced quinnsmas :blobcatsanta:

     in reply to

     • xianc78
     • New World Indigo
     @xianc78 @Indigo traditional american libertarianism doesn't really care about charity, you're just not allowed to have congress steal all the money for isreal
     xianc78 likes this.
   • xianc78@gameliberty.club's status on Sunday, 17-Nov-2024 13:36:21 JST xianc78

     in reply to

     • New World Indigo

     @Indigo @icedquinn
     >Atlas Shrugged is just too damn bloated though, I got through it, but I understand why a lot of people just can't finish it; you really need to be at least 60% with her in order to get into it

     That's such a shame, otherwise I would recommend it, not to convert people necessarily, but to debunk some other shitty claim: that the science fiction genre is and has always been about Fully Automated Luxury Space Communism.

     >That said, I think "the charity question," is pretty cleanly explained in AS, basically charity is only immoral if you're giving against your interests, if you're donating to a charity that will ultimately lead to a long term benefit for you in some way that's still kosh (EG: donating to a homeless shelter because having people sleeping in the streets is bad for business, so you're ultimately helping yourself by helping other people).

     Of course most businesses would only ever donate out of their own self-interest, but when it comes to individuals I don't think donating to something that won't benefit you is immoral. Ultimately, people do selfless acts because it makes them feel good, so there really is no such thing as doing something against your self-interest. Though I do understand the dangers of being too altruistic where people take advantage of you. I know that from experience.

   • New World Indigo (indigo@shitposter.world)'s status on Sunday, 17-Nov-2024 13:36:22 JST New World Indigo

     in reply to

     • xianc78
     @xianc78 @icedquinn I can respect that. I went through a Rand phase a few years back, I stand by The Fountainhead as being a genuinely great book that functions as both a vehicle for Objectivist philosophy and a compelling story on its own. Atlas Shrugged is just too damn bloated though, I got through it, but I understand why a lot of people just can't finish it; you really need to be at least 60% with her in order to get into it, and the fact that her self-insert character is sexually irresistible to every major male character in the book is telling of the sheer size of her ego (which I think she would consider a compliment).
     That said, I think "the charity question," is pretty cleanly explained in AS, basically charity is only immoral if you're giving against your interests, if you're donating to a charity that will ultimately lead to a long term benefit for you in some way that's still kosh (EG: donating to a homeless shelter because having people sleeping in the streets is bad for business, so you're ultimately helping yourself by helping other people).
     
     That's all semantics though, I agree that Objectivism and Libertarianism should be viewed as parallel, but separate ideologies.