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@riserise @SuperSnekFriend there's a lot of history here, let me see if I can sum it up without sperging too much.
"Rogue" is a very old game played on terminals, it's a turn based dungeon crawler that uses ASCII characters to represent the player character, monsters, items, etc.
Then, people started making games in the same style, like Hack/Nethack, Angband, etc. These became known as "Roguelikes".
A "Roguelike" game was a kind of game that had a very specific style: it was a turn dungeon crawler with permadeath and procedurally generated dungeons that had simple graphics and was really hard. Some games later on introduced graphics, but the main elements were still there.
Over time, but specially in the 2010s, they started calling absolutely any game that had permadeath and random generation a "Roguelike¨. I may be mistaken, but I think the main culprits were Slay the Spire and Dead Cells, which are completely different from what Rogue was (heck, Dead Cells is an action platformer, it isn't even turn based) but still were called Roguelikes because they had permadeath and procedurally generated stuff.
Then, someone a bit more sane said they weren't real Roguelikes because they differed too much from what Rogue was, and a proper term would be "Roguelite". Which I can kinda agree with, it's a game that has some elements of Rogue but it's not exactly a "Rogue-like". Something similar happened with the "Doom Clones", which turned into the FPS genre, despite there being games that are more like Doom.
Except that then retards pulled out of their ass that what turned these "Roguelites" different from Rogue and the Roguelikes wasn't the fact THEY WERE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT GENRES OF GAMES, but the fact they had "metaprogression". Then, retards started calling whatever game that has permadeath, random generation and a system of metaprogression where you get points to unlock stuff for the next playthroughs "Roguelites", and games that have permadeath, random generation and no such system as "Roguelikes", despite anything else. So you have stupid shit like a ¨Roguelike Action Platformer", or "Roguelike Deckbuilder" or ¨Roguelike Tower Defense" despite Rogue having never been any of those things.
The overall "Roquelite = metaprogression" and "Roguelike = no metaprogression" thing is still kinda going, but the terms were muddled and there is no clear definition of what is and is not metaprogression so in the end both terms can mean anything at the same time they describe almost nothing.
No, I wasn't able to be brief, succinct and non spergy, it seems. Have some cute Yurus to make up for it.
- luithe and :awoo_tired: shotgun snuggler :clownpiece_smug: like this.
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@Suzu @riserise @SuperSnekFriend The occasional sperging is fine as long as it comes with cool info.
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@supersid333 @DrRyanSkelton @SuperSnekFriend @Suzu @riserise Were you trying to go Ur-Beast as a feat?
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@Suzu @DrRyanSkelton @SuperSnekFriend @riserise One of these days I'll win a run as a Mardok Ur-Beast
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@Suzu @SuperSnekFriend @riserise I bought Path of Achra on @DrRyanSkelton 's suggestion and it also scratches that itch. The game runs through playthroughs fast and all builds work off trying to build the strongest set of cascading If/Then chains between your weapons/armor skills, your skills, and whatever unique traits you get from your starting class/race/god. Though I'd be hard pressed to say it's a full Rogue-Like as you describe it since it doesn't have dungeons, just procedurally generated battlefields that you dive through floor by floor.
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@riserise @SuperSnekFriend anyways, if you want a relatively modern take on a real "Rogue-like" game, play Dungeons of Dredmor.
It plays like Rogue, and has some... interesting aesthetic choices, which kinda play on what I was talking about in the beginning of the thread. It's also a bit more user friendly than Rogue or other oldschool Roguelikes because it's graphical with mouse support, so you can click your way around instead of memorizing 50 different keyboard shortcuts for doing everything.
It was released in 2011, and plays like a Roguelike should play: it's a top down procedurally generated turn based dungeon crawler with permadeath and high difficulty. It has a nice sense of humor, especially if we compare it to the irony poisoned clown world we have in games nowadays. And it has a lot of different skills you can pick and choose to "build your own class" and try different stuff.
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@supersid333 @DrRyanSkelton @SuperSnekFriend @Suzu @riserise I'm trying to see if I can beat it, but not with Reaver because I already did that.
I'm trying Templar with Lightning, Life and Martial + Ur-beast. I'll avoid Berserk though.
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@Immahnoob @DrRyanSkelton @SuperSnekFriend @Suzu @riserise Ur
-Beast was the prestige class yes. This run ended because I picked a location with an enemy that hard countered me.
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@supersid333 @DrRyanSkelton @SuperSnekFriend @Suzu @riserise I did it. :kek_pain:
This was pretty hard. I also had a ton of anti-synergies going on here, I shouldn't have went with lightning honestly and just embraced Berserk (I'm using the Beast Visage here anyway).
I just got entangled in all the maluses so I forgot that Encumberance would fuck over my dodge anyway if Berserk won't.
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@Immahnoob @DrRyanSkelton @SuperSnekFriend @Suzu @riserise Going through my own good run through atm. Dread Helm Red Axe with some fire AoE skills (Shamsar seems hard to skip out on for free extra AoE and a small dip into Fire Healing gives me marginal sustain when I attack a lot simply breathing).
Suzu :miku_happy:
supersid
Immahnoob
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