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1. Crux_Invictus (crux_invictus@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 09-Sep-2024 11:01:27 JST Crux_Invictus
   I'm forever being told that churches need to be "missional", and that we need to foster a "mission culture".
   
   It's good for churches to be missional in the sense that they should be active in their communities. But churches should also be preaching the whole Word of God including those parts that will offend people. What's the point of a church that won't speak against evil?
   
   Instead of missional how about we be confessional instead?
   • Crux_Invictus (crux_invictus@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 09-Sep-2024 11:01:26 JST Crux_Invictus

     in reply to
     Sure, when properly understood a missional church is confessional and vice versa. But more often than not I see churches, who want to be missional, give up their Lutheran identity and theology in an attempt to appeal to the public. It doesn't work.
     
     If you aren't brave enough to confess Christ in the face of the world what makes you think new converts will?
   • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks (washedoutgundampilot@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 09-Sep-2024 11:01:26 JST Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks

     in reply to

     @Crux_Invictus I believe a lot of them have been warped by decades of evangelizing the incompetent & brown. It's easy to "convert" an illiterate 3rd worlder, they expect a status boost, support, food, money, appliances, basically every material comfort the world can offer.

     I've just assumed that they've been doubling down on that, from what I saw of all the big missionary drivers down south. Seemed very boomer, keeping the attendance stats up by replacing pissed off heritage americans w/ mercenary 3rd worlders

   • Crux_Invictus (crux_invictus@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 09-Sep-2024 11:07:50 JST Crux_Invictus

     in reply to

     • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks
     @WashedOutGundamPilot For the most part yes, the natural "missional" energy churches have is often sent overseas. Be it through people going on trips or money, it's also a very sanitary way of evangelizing since you just give money and it's sometime else's problem.
     
     But that's not the biggest problem, the biggest problem is that a lot of Christians are ashamed of the Bible, and Lutherans in particular seem to be ashamed of what makes them Lutheran. So when they evangelize they do so in a way that tickles the ears. Instead of calling out immorality and telling people to stop before they run right off a cliff they just "love" them in a vague often sin-affirming way.
     
     It's been an issue for decades now but for some church bodies like mine it's now reaching a boiling point.
     Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks likes this.
   • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks (washedoutgundampilot@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 09-Sep-2024 11:08:45 JST Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks

     in reply to

     @Crux_Invictus I think a big key battle loss across churches of every stripe was "should we condemn the people living out of wedlock, or just keep quiet so we don't chase them off for good"

     Seemed like an early test that everyone mostly failed

   • PunishedD (punishedd@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 09-Sep-2024 11:16:30 JST PunishedD

     in reply to

     • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks
     @WashedOutGundamPilot @Crux_Invictus That was the first massive compromise I recognized. I remember my church growing up kicking out people who shacked up together, or threatening to until they married. Then there was a point where churches just stopped doing it.
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   • Crux_Invictus (crux_invictus@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 09-Sep-2024 11:16:35 JST Crux_Invictus

     in reply to

     • Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks
     @WashedOutGundamPilot The culture shifted and so did the church. You excommunicate them, God forbid, but pastors should be guiding them towards marriage.
     
     As with all manner of sins, you can be pastoral when dealing with sinners while also condemning sin. After all the Word of God convicts sinners and offers them forgiveness if they repent of it.
     
     But we ignore it or even worse we throw it in people's faces when they try to call out sins like homosexuality. "How dare you call this guy a sodomite! Remove the log that is premarital sex from your own eye first!"
     
     It's difficult because we can't be so legalistic that we return into Pharisees and purity spiral ourselves into extinction. But we also can't be so soft that we fail to call sin what it is
     Woggy's Zeonic Frolicks likes this.