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pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Sunday, 05-May-2024 07:17:13 JST 
pistolero
@NEETzsche @Cookieman @childrapist1488 @lina @Looming @fedilist @mint
> Appeals to the technical advantages of fedi/linux just aren't going to measure up to the network effect in the mind of anybody without a bachelors in computer science.
If that were the case, then I would get to have far more technical conversations than I have now. Just go look at Poast if you want to see.
Even if it were true, it would be fine with me: I'm trying to use something I like rather than use something that other people like. Technological evangelism is not something I've ever been interested in. In my case, it's much simpler: if I don't want to talk to vegetarians, I can hang out at a steakhouse.
I understand your problem, and that you'd like to get your tabletop friends off of the shitty services and onto here, but of course they aren't interested in the place based on the technical merits: either it gives them something they want or it doesn't. You can add the thing they want, it's open, but it's not a matter of how to sell it.
As far as Linux adoption goes, I don't think we are starting with the same fundamental suppositions. I want a C compiler: do I care if normies want a C compiler when I decide what OS to use?
When nobody really "got" Linux, that was fine with me: I didn't need them to understand Linux to be able to use Linux. So people would ask why I bothered with Linux and I could speak broadly or specifically about the capabilities, and then they'd either understand or not, and if they understood, either they'd be interested or it became obvious that we wanted different things from an operating system. It only really bothered me if they were persistent about trying to get me to abandon my heresy, and they either didn't understand or didn't think I should want to do the things I wanted to do. (Same thing nowadays with Plan 9: not many people understand it and most people don't care about it and that is fine with me, I can still use it. I'm happy to talk about it but I don't want to convert anyone that's not interested and it's annoying when people can't recognize that and move on.)
So, fedi, we're all here. I'd rather focus on doing things that are good for the people that are here (which obviously includes me) than to get more people here. I saw what "get more normies here" did to Linux. No, thank you: no good software resulted from that, and it never made normies start using Linux. There was a lot of "You picked this software because of your values and your taste and you must now discard both of those in order to get people that don't share your values to use the software" and fuck that completely. Some people that didn't like Linux hopped on because they were interested in the Raspberry Pi. What actually got them to use Linux was the Android phone: that is what you get if you successfully make a Linux that normies will use, and it's something I won't touch.
thefutureis2dollars.png- † top dog :pedomustdie: likes this.
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pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Sunday, 05-May-2024 11:22:57 JST
pistolero
@NEETzsche @Cookieman @childrapist1488 @lina @Looming @fedilist @mint
> You can maybe make an argument for fedi being a place for people with a CS background OR
Or if you hate Elon because he is inventing fascism, or if you are George Takei, or for a long time, if you were a prostitute ( http://demo.fedilist.com/instance/switter.at ), or 2huposting, or if you want to run a psyop ( http://demo.fedilist.com/instance/nafo.uk ) or whoever. I would *love* it if everything on here was about computers. Most of it isn't, most of the people here aren't programmers. I didn't come here because I'm a programmer, I came here because it was fun.
> What you're making is half a point if it's true and it's probably not even true.
You remain unconvinced, sure. I don't know what to do about that and am not sure I should do anything about it: the world in which you agree with me on this point looks basically exactly like the world we currently inhabit.
> It would be fine with you that this side of fedi is only for people with a very short list of interests (it is)? Seriously?
:cryingl: Would you seriously be okay with a large number of people that are interested in the same things you like? How could you?
:craysmile:
> And yes, that is an actual problem, one that won't go away by your mere dismissal of it.
Well, like I said, I get that the place is in some ways not fit for purpose from your perspective or your friends' perspective. I don't know what you want me to do about that. That's not a dismissal, but like I said, I don't have the same problems you have. I'd rather improve the place than worry too much about changing the place with the hope that it will make people that hate the place suddenly love it. (It won't.) If the improvements make more people arrive, great. If not, the goal was to improve the place, and that's sufficient for me.
> For you to have a point here we'd need to see some actual improvements made for the people here.
Then stop arguing with me about it so I can continue to write the software. -
NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Sunday, 05-May-2024 11:22:57 JST 
NEETzsche
Here's the thing, I don't think there is anything to do about it, exactly. I attribute the root cause to the network effect. It isn't that fedi is unfit for the use cases I suggest from a technical level, it's that people are already on these other platforms and, to them, the culture of ban-dodging is preferable to a culture of abandoning these services.
I'm not trying to convince you to solve the problem, I'm trying to convince you that it actually is one, that it's not in my head, that it's not just one limited to my personal hobbies.
Like I said above, I'm not sure what the solution is, or if there is one. I have this theory that the network effect is a big part of it, but important people within a certain sphere draw the users, so if you convince the VIPs to jump ship then the people will follow. Evidence for this theory: Trump and Truth Social, which has more activity on it than one might realize.
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NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Sunday, 05-May-2024 11:22:58 JST
NEETzsche
>If that were the case, then I would get to have far more technical conversations than I have now. Just go look at Poast if you want to see.
It is the case. You can maybe make an argument for fedi being a place for people with a CS background OR you want to niggerpost to the exclusion of basically everything else, but that doesn't address the core issue: limited scope of interests. What you're making is half a point if it's true and it's probably not even true.
>Even if it were true, it would be fine with me
It would be fine with you that this side of fedi is only for people with a very short list of interests (it is)? Seriously?
>I understand your problem, and that you'd like to get your tabletop friends off of the shitty services and onto here, but of course they aren't interested in the place based on the technical merits
That's not the problem. Here's the problem: only a certain handful of interests are actually discussed on this side of fedi with any significant volume. And yes, that is an actual problem, one that won't go away by your mere dismissal of it.
>So, fedi, we're all here. I'd rather focus on doing things that are good for the people that are here (which obviously includes me) than to get more people here. I saw what "get more normies here" did to Linux. No, thank you: no good software resulted from that, and it never made normies start using Linux.
Fedi is stagnant. I haven't seen new features for fedi released in years, and efforts to create them are met with technically dubious non-arguments. See the scrobbling PRs. For you to have a point here we'd need to see some actual improvements made for the people here.
In conclusion, fedi is stagnant because it can only attract users with a certain handful of interests, this is a real issue, and dismissing it isn't addressing it. -
≠ (amerika@annihilation.social)'s status on Sunday, 05-May-2024 11:23:50 JST
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@NEETzsche @Cookieman @childrapist1488 @lina @Looming @fedilist @p @mint
Network effects are everything in social media.
On Twitter, you can reach a wider audience.
The algos prioritize popularity, so you can make a name for yourself.
On the fediverse people are just posting news from their projects past each other.
That being said, it is much more relaxed for casual interaction. -
The Problem (marine@breastmilk.club)'s status on Monday, 06-May-2024 21:54:57 JST
The Problem
@p @Cookieman @childrapist1488 @lina @Looming @fedilist @NEETzsche @mint The fact remains that there’s a small subset of interests on fedi as a whole. On the leftist side of fedi; there’s two topics, one with a subtopic. it’s malding about republicans and tranny shit (and the subset being disgusting sexual fetish shit) and then on this side of fedi, you have three things outright: anime titties, niggerposting, and tech spergs. It’s incredibly narrow and it’s basically impossible to talk about anything outside of those topics. Sure, you’ll get current thing posting occasionally, but the threads always end up falling into those topics too.
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NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Monday, 06-May-2024 21:54:57 JST
NEETzsche
You can talk about other things, but if you do, the thread will either get ignored or the topic will get redirected to niggerposting, tech spergery, or anime tits. But yOu sHoUlDn'T pOsT fOr EnGaGeMeNt
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rees (rees@breastmilk.club)'s status on Monday, 06-May-2024 21:55:39 JST 
rees
@NEETzsche @Cookieman @marine @childrapist1488 @lina @Looming @fedilist @p @mint >will get redirected to niggerposting, tech spergery, or anime tits
or cats
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