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1. maren (stillgreenmoss@social.coop)'s status on Tuesday, 16-Apr-2024 19:22:13 JST maren

   • Delta Chat
   • Janik Besendorf
   • crepererum

   @ben @delta @crepererum @besendorf

   > PFS has serious implementation/complexity and multi-device usability repercussions so for now it's not a focus.

   as a technical (sysadminish) end user, this is my main feeling about the tradeoff of PFS and why i support delta not having it.

   signal succeeds with walled environment. I came to delta from snikket, where PFS is enabled but when it fails, group chats break. troubleshooting isn't feasible because all errors are client side, so its a showstopper

   • crepererum (crepererum@mastodon.online)'s status on Tuesday, 16-Apr-2024 19:22:12 JST crepererum

     in reply to

     • Delta Chat
     • Janik Besendorf

     @stillgreenmoss @ben @delta @besendorf FWIW both "group chats + FS" and "open protocol" are now solved by MLS ( https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc9420 ). I think the issue of most chat-oriented protocols is that they don't map to "email" very well, since emails are basically "fire and forget", so key exchanges are harder/slower.

   • maren (stillgreenmoss@social.coop)'s status on Tuesday, 16-Apr-2024 19:22:37 JST maren

     in reply to

     • Delta Chat
     • Janik Besendorf
     • crepererum

     @crepererum @ben @delta @besendorf this is super interesting. I didn't know about this RFC or effort. Wikipedia entry suggests it's not in use in any end user applications yet, do you know if that's true?