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1. feld (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Thursday, 07-Mar-2024 02:37:41 JST feld

   in reply to

   • Nicholas
   @nick > But the difference is that the US incentives are domestic, and designed to nurture development within the US's borders.
   
   this is a fallacy. Any time you do tariffs or grants/subsidies to make "American products" more affordable to prevent foreign products from becoming dominant in the market you are stealing from Americans. When the consumer can get products for less they have more money leftover to spend in the economy and boost other businesses. These tactics look good from a distance but are actually an invisible tax on all Americans under the guise of "saving an industry".
   • LS likes this.
   • feld (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Thursday, 07-Mar-2024 02:37:45 JST feld

     in reply to

     • Tristan Harward
     • Nicholas
     @nick @trisweb but how is that appreciably different than the US gov giving out grants up to $500M for EV auto makers? Or the EV tax rebates?
     
     https://afdc.energy.gov/laws/13366#:~:text=The%20U.S.%20Department%20of%20Energy,through%20the%20Domestic%20Manufacturing%20Conversion
   • Nicholas (nick@toot.cafe)'s status on Thursday, 07-Mar-2024 02:37:45 JST Nicholas

     in reply to

     @feld But the difference is that the US incentives are domestic, and designed to nurture development within the US's borders. $500m to pay American jobs to refurbish old auto factories. $7500 to middle-class Americans to buy EV rather than ICE. The Chinese incentives are 1) secret 2) external-facing. They're just taking losses. Combined with their supply chain of forced labor [1], it's clear the Chinese government is enacting predatory pricing & then lying about it.

     [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/20/business/economy/forced-labor-china-supply-chain.html

   • Nicholas (nick@toot.cafe)'s status on Thursday, 07-Mar-2024 02:37:46 JST Nicholas

     in reply to

     • Tristan Harward

     @feld @trisweb turns out the reason Chinese EVs are so cheap, even outside China, is that the Chinese government is subsidizing them through "direct transfers of funds" https://electrek.co/2024/03/06/europe-may-slap-retroactive-tariffs-chinese-evs/#more-352695

   • Nicholas (nick@toot.cafe)'s status on Thursday, 07-Mar-2024 02:37:47 JST Nicholas

     in reply to

     • Dare Obasanjo
     • Tristan Harward

     @trisweb @carnage4life I desperately want EVs to flourish as a competitive marketplace but every headline I’ve seen for the past 6 months has been some variation of “[Legacy Automaker] walks back plans for EV expansion as Tesla furthers lead”

     Here’s Mercedes from last week, for example https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/mercedes-benz-hits-cars-returns-forecast-inflation-supply-chain-costs-bite-2024-02-22/

     Here’s Aston Martin: https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/aston-martin-posts-smaller-than-expected-annual-loss-2024-02-28/

   • feld (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Thursday, 07-Mar-2024 02:37:47 JST feld

     in reply to

     • Dare Obasanjo
     • Tristan Harward
     • Nicholas
     @nick @trisweb @carnage4life the competition isn't going to come from legacy auto, it's gonna come from new players like BYD
     
     https://thedriven.io/2024/02/22/corolla-killer-byd-launches-us15000-ev-in-direct-attack-on-legacy-makers/
   • Tristan Harward (trisweb@m.trisweb.com)'s status on Thursday, 07-Mar-2024 02:37:48 JST Tristan Harward

     in reply to

     • Dare Obasanjo

     @carnage4life Apple simply wasn’t the one to undertake it.

     Competing with Tesla will be easy for auto makers with actual experience manufacturing automobiles. Tesla isn’t even good at that.

   • Dare Obasanjo (carnage4life@mas.to)'s status on Thursday, 07-Mar-2024 02:37:49 JST Dare Obasanjo

     Competing with Tesla has truly been the streaming version of competing with Netflix. The same way the studios should have focused on licensing content to Netflix & others, Apple should have focused on being the software layer for modern cars not a competitor.

     Pure hubris.

     https://t.co/PmtfXawbbZ