Conversation

Notices

1. Luci for Chai Tea (zens@merveilles.town)'s status on Sunday, 05-Feb-2023 14:06:32 JST Luci for Chai Tea

   it is okay to just… not use any JS framework. i am sometimes just startled at the assumption from so many pros that you *need* one.

   you can just.. write plain JS.
   it won’t hurt. I promise.

   • Adrian Cochrane repeated this.
   • Luci for Chai Tea (zens@merveilles.town)'s status on Sunday, 05-Feb-2023 14:17:16 JST Luci for Chai Tea

     in reply to

     frameworks are a relic of a time when cross browser differences were so dire you needed some abstraction.

     now you kinda only need that for the newer APIs that have differences still like storage, and audio. these APIs didn’t exist at all when frameworks started and aren’t even addresses by them.

     we have es modules now. free yourself from the shackles of your build systems

     Adrian Cochrane repeated this.
   • Luci for Chai Tea (zens@merveilles.town)'s status on Monday, 06-Feb-2023 07:07:56 JST Luci for Chai Tea

     in reply to

     Am I saying Never Use Frameworks?
     Am I saying Never Use Components?

     nope. I am not. get yourselves a reading lesson.

   • Jay Hannah (deafferret@octodon.social)'s status on Monday, 06-Feb-2023 10:02:33 JST Jay Hannah

     in reply to

     @zens http://vanilla-js.com/

   • Luci for Chai Tea (zens@merveilles.town)'s status on Monday, 06-Feb-2023 10:35:46 JST Luci for Chai Tea

     in reply to

     not that javascript is perfect or the best language, but you do realise all programming languages are terrible right? and the only reason you like some more than others is because it’s what you’re used to?

     Adrian Cochrane repeated this.
   • Luci for Chai Tea (zens@merveilles.town)'s status on Monday, 06-Feb-2023 10:35:47 JST Luci for Chai Tea

     in reply to

     lotta people coming here just to tell me they hate javascript.

     just FYI, i muted you because i don’t think you will have anything interesting to say ever.

     Adrian Cochrane repeated this.
   • Luci for Chai Tea (zens@merveilles.town)'s status on Monday, 06-Feb-2023 10:51:20 JST Luci for Chai Tea

     in reply to

     “X language sucks and it’s the worst and I hate it”

     boring, unhelpful, not very thoughtful, based on pure emotion

     “X language is useful for Y, but has Z flaws you should watch out for if you don’t wanna waste a lot of time”

     productive, helpful, interesting, practical, geared towards getting stuff done instead of implying people are stupid for liking something

   • Luci for Chai Tea (zens@merveilles.town)'s status on Monday, 06-Feb-2023 10:59:05 JST Luci for Chai Tea

     in reply to

     like, maybe if you’re coming here to make some kind of comment like this, think about what outcome you are intending.

     do you want to start a conversation? or are you just here to fight with strangers and insult them? is this really as good a way of proving yoy’re better than other people as you think it is?

     Adrian Cochrane repeated this.
   • Luci for Chai Tea (zens@merveilles.town)'s status on Monday, 06-Feb-2023 10:59:06 JST Luci for Chai Tea

     in reply to

     “maybe if the thing you wanna build is stupid and simple and you never need to maintain it”
     oh hey look at that, I know where the block button is.

     Adrian Cochrane repeated this.
   • Luci for Chai Tea (zens@merveilles.town)'s status on Monday, 06-Feb-2023 11:05:17 JST Luci for Chai Tea

     in reply to

     what’s notable about a lot of these comments is how many assume a website
     1. must be built by a large team.
     2. are some kind of commercial website.

     i am old enough to remember when sites could be built by a single person, and web devs were shamed into obscurity if the site didn’t work without javascript enabled

     are newer sites doing something special and different that necessitates large teams? is there some magical feature that can *only* be done with react?

     as far as I can tell, no?

     Adrian Cochrane repeated this.
   • Luci for Chai Tea (zens@merveilles.town)'s status on Monday, 06-Feb-2023 11:05:25 JST Luci for Chai Tea

     in reply to

     the framework itself is what requires the large team, is what it looks like to me.

     Adrian Cochrane repeated this.
   • Adrian Cochrane (alcinnz@floss.social)'s status on Monday, 06-Feb-2023 11:09:42 JST Adrian Cochrane

     in reply to

     @zens What it looks like to me is that lots of webdevs decided native forms looked ugly, reimplemented them, & forgot webforms are even something that exists more stylable than ever now.

     Then again browsers haven't put a lot of effort into improving them...

   • Luci for Chai Tea (zens@merveilles.town)'s status on Monday, 06-Feb-2023 11:23:43 JST Luci for Chai Tea

     in reply to

     when react first came out, its justification for existing was to simplify state management for social media sites that were really apps with a lot of moving parts- live chat windows, notification panels and badges, interactive voting modules with constantly updating values, and different interdependent pieces whose state would go out of sync.

     that is not the kind of site i see react mostly being used for

     Adrian Cochrane repeated this.
   • Luci for Chai Tea (zens@merveilles.town)'s status on Monday, 06-Feb-2023 11:24:41 JST Luci for Chai Tea

     in reply to

     indeed it’s not even particularly good for building such a site, really- i hear facebook doesn’t even use react?