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1. Radical_EgoCom (radical_egocom@kolektiva.social)'s status on Tuesday, 31-Jan-2023 08:43:05 JST Radical_EgoCom

   Capitalism creates poverty
   #peterkropotkin #anticapitalism

   • LS (lain@lain.com)'s status on Tuesday, 31-Jan-2023 08:42:56 JST LS

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     • sj_zero
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     @sj_zero @terryenglish @Radical_EgoCom @book
     > The pragmatic thing is often also horribly evil, such as spending as much as possible to monopolize surface water then raising the prices of water massively. T
     
     notably this is what many governments do in their areas.
   • sj_zero (sj_zero@social.fbxl.net)'s status on Tuesday, 31-Jan-2023 08:42:57 JST sj_zero

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     Capitalism is an economic system characterized by private ownership of capital goods, by investments that are determined by private decision, and by prices, production, and the distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market.
     
     It requires free markets, and generally provides workers the liberty to own their own labor, and allowing individuals to decide how they spend their time and how they spend their money. There are unfortunately examples where privately owning capital means abridging liberty of the workers. However, for a lot of people ideal capitalism means workers are more free than in other economic systems since they can sell their labor to whoever they please, or use it themselves without interference from external entities like the community or the government. For a lot of people, protecting people against these situations becomes a major role of government in a capitalist society.
     
     Contrasting this liberty and individual choice, many other economic systems including socialism and communism have the community or the central government make these decisions for the individual.
     
     Often, "Capitalism" becomes the catch-all phrase attacking all market failures exclusively. For example, some people talk about feudalism and complain about capitalism, but under feudalism everything belonged to the king, and the king would meter out control of his holdings to nobility, who in turn would meter out control to peasants. By definition the capital was not owned privately since it was owned by the king exclusively.
     
     Capitalism often works very efficiently because individuals know what they want or need better than the state does. Free markets tend to be rooted in pragmatism: For one example, Meta has invested billions of dollars into the metaverse, but people don't want the metaverse so they've just lost that money. If this was a government program, customers would be forced to participate in the metaverse or they'd continue to get money forever, but eventually the private company will run out of money for the program and eventually the capital will be reallocated to something more beneficial.
     
     It's this very pragmatism that can be dangerous at times: Jonathan Swift said markets need to be underpinned by a moral society for this reason. The pragmatic thing is often also horribly evil, such as spending as much as possible to monopolize surface water then raising the prices of water massively. This is another place where even proponents of capitalism often support government intervention, to ensure that market actors aren't taking actions that are profitable but grossly immoral.
     
     In practice, there have been virtually no examples of pure capitalism, so there are many examples throughout history where merchants could trade and individuals could own things despite strong central planning in other ways, but although there are examples from the medieval era onwards, capitalism in the sense we think of it today really started with eras focusing more on liberalism, which started only a few hundred years ago. In addition, capitalism has never been the only economic system on earth at one time, with a number of different economic systems being in play at any one time and that's true today.
   • 積ん読 (book@sleepy.cafe)'s status on Tuesday, 31-Jan-2023 08:42:58 JST 積ん読

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     @terryenglish @Radical_EgoCom Conveniently you guys never define it when using it.
   • 🇨🇦 Blobcat Appreciator (terryenglish@blob.cat)'s status on Tuesday, 31-Jan-2023 08:42:59 JST 🇨🇦 Blobcat Appreciator

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     • 積ん読
     @book That is not a definition of capitalism that I have seen. @Radical_EgoCom
   • 積ん読 (book@sleepy.cafe)'s status on Tuesday, 31-Jan-2023 08:43:00 JST 積ん読

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     @terryenglish @Radical_EgoCom How can X create Y if Y predates X?
     >however so is wealth.
     Sorry, are we somehow rhetorically separating wealth from "capitalism?"
     Isn't Capitalism just having wealth?
   • 🇨🇦 Blobcat Appreciator (terryenglish@blob.cat)'s status on Tuesday, 31-Jan-2023 08:43:01 JST 🇨🇦 Blobcat Appreciator

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     • 積ん読
     @book It is true that poverty predates capitalism, however so is wealth. A useless point. @Radical_EgoCom
   • 積ん読 (book@sleepy.cafe)'s status on Tuesday, 31-Jan-2023 08:43:02 JST 積ん読

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     • 🇨🇦 Blobcat Appreciator
     @terryenglish @Radical_EgoCom
     So people other than you create wealth and keep it, and this is framed as "creating poverty?"
   • 積ん読 (book@sleepy.cafe)'s status on Tuesday, 31-Jan-2023 08:43:02 JST 積ん読

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     • 積ん読
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     @terryenglish @Radical_EgoCom Seems like the poverty was there from the start.
   • 🇨🇦 Blobcat Appreciator (terryenglish@blob.cat)'s status on Tuesday, 31-Jan-2023 08:43:03 JST 🇨🇦 Blobcat Appreciator

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     • 積ん読
     @book In the broadest possible sense, by misallocating the wealth generated by society into fewer and fewer hands. Capitalism needs to be heavily regulated in order to prevent it from returning to feudalism. In the long run even that will likely not work as capitalism works (often successfully) to subvert regulation by governments. @Radical_EgoCom
   • 積ん読 (book@sleepy.cafe)'s status on Tuesday, 31-Jan-2023 08:43:04 JST 積ん読

     in reply to
     @Radical_EgoCom how
   • sj_zero (sj_zero@social.fbxl.net)'s status on Tuesday, 31-Jan-2023 08:52:45 JST sj_zero

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     • 積ん読
     • LS
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     Unfortunately, no group has a monopoly on evil.
     LS likes this.