@noyoushutthefuckupdad@coolboymew at the same time i gotta hand it to gabe tho. Steam so far (after 2 decades). Steam has been giving a better deal than pirates, and you can still pirate just fine on deck.
I actually pirated a free (gratis) game that became a paid game with little to no improvement out of spite even though it would have been easier to pay and get it from steam. And it's not a great game either (head over heels).
I loathe to think of time when gabe retires image.png
@hj@coolboymew I remember when Steam first launched in 2003. it was a buggy pile of shit that could only play Half-Life and mods of Half-Life. every vidya website mocked it. but Newell kept working and turned it into something gigantic.
I still pirate most of my entertainment, though. yo ho ho
If you pay money for a product and then the creator of that product remotely deactivates it, you can complain. It may or may not have an impact, but it is a legitimate complaint.
@noyoushutthefuckupdad@coolboymew yeah I still remember the "no-steam" CS:S servers and the "A.I. Disabled..." anti-piracy in half-life 2 and episodes. It was garbage at launch and was more of a form of DRM to Source/GoldSrc (rereleases of) games. Some of those things still remain today, like you cannot move GoldSrc games between drives because they are all stored in half-life directory, and moving them also means moving everything else which steam just can't comprehend as it doesn't really apply to other games.
While I do still buy most of the games on steam it's usually indies and like. Pirating anime is also normal since there usually either no distributors or they are complete fucking dog shit, plus even if distributors are "decent" they aren't really paying to original creators either.
I do share louis rossman's approach though - if you provide shit to me i'm just not interested in your content, it doesn't exist to me. Much like I see EGS exclusives as "delayed". .jpg
@hj@coolboymew@noyoushutthefuckupdad The moment Gabe dies or retires from steam I'll start migrating off of it. It'll certainly be gobbled up by the money-grabbers and turn to shit really quick.
@noyoushutthefuckupdad@coolboymew@hj I repeat myself, but as much as I admire any content creator that makes art/gameplay, like any boardgame, the fact that a vg is proprietary is as much of an issue than DRM is.
@mangeurdenuage@coolboymew@noyoushutthefuckupdad let me just remind you that steam has optional DRM and a lot of the games sold there are actually DRM-free. Steam's own DRM is just steamclientapi.dll that is piss-easy to circumvent. I still remember downloading Dungeons of Dredmor on windows steam (on wine) and just running the (linux!) executable, years before steam on linux became even a possibility.
It's just a storefront with some neat features and custom protocol for downloading stuff.
At the very least they aren't making outrageous claims and promises that they end up failing to deliver on (cough) GOG (cough)
@mangeurdenuage@hj@coolboymew DRM is a major problem. the only stuff I buy on Steam is stuff under 5 bucks or games where I specifically want to support the creators.
@hj@coolboymew@noyoushutthefuckupdad I can't wait for steam to die and people getting fucked by corporate conman via DRMs. It's already more or less the case in the past you could saved a copy of your steam game locally and then re-import it from that copy without needing an internet connection, last time I tried (2014) it didn't allow to re import without an internet connection.
@coolboymew@mangeurdenuage@noyoushutthefuckupdad whomever start saying shit about achievements/matchmaking/networking being "the DRM" i'm gonna throw stones and yell "go back to using gog galaxy 2.0 and epic game store"
Only one thing that I do think steam has massive flaw is that games often outright require update, even in offline mode. If game doesn't work in offline mode it's usually gamedev's intention/fault. .gif
@coolboymew@graf@noyoushutthefuckupdad i still use it from source, thankfully i don't have to manage git repo myself as i did back in Debian days, now it's just an AUR.
@a1ba@coolboymew@mangeurdenuage@noyoushutthefuckupdad it is nice that some steam features that have been left to decay (and coincidentally been a talking point for reeeeee'ers) like offline mode has been fixed and improved due to their necessity on steam deck.
@a1ba@hj@coolboymew@mangeurdenuage everyone I know who has a Steam Deck really likes them. I wish people still called it the Gabe Gear, that was was great nickname.
@noyoushutthefuckupdad@hj@coolboymew@mangeurdenuage@a1ba when i first played portal i didnt know anything about half life or gabe newell. i start up portal with commentary enabled and i thought it was hilarious that they guy talking said "i can be reached at GayBen@valvesoftware.com"
@lanodan@coolboymew@mangeurdenuage@noyoushutthefuckupdad at the end of the day it's the intentions that matter. Steam has legacy of being a product of botnet environment (ex-microsoft employees, literally being just a DRM for half-life) and its development has priorities as you might expect.
All the things they do so far indicate that they don't really intend on being big bad DRM industry as some people make them out to be. Offline mode got improved, LAN transfer got implemented, deck was released and it has zero lockdown you'd expect from i.e. Sony or Nintendo.
@mangeurdenuage@hj@coolboymew@noyoushutthefuckupdad There's differences but I see your point as in the end it's often the same (like on the legality of sharing mods, DRM just makes most of them illegal even for private use). And even if Steam doesn't forces DRM, the way the main client works is way too botnet-like due to the forced updates (which could be used to introduce DRM).
@a1ba@coolboymew@mangeurdenuage@noyoushutthefuckupdad original big picture was fucking broken tbh and barely fucking worked, I used it a lot and i had to switch to desktop mode or restart it on every second sneeze.
I don't think so. I've never bought any downloadable content, never paid for PS-online. I'm signed in to an account to track trophies, but if the account gets banned, I should be able to copy my save games to USB, reset the PS4/5, copy the saves back over and reinstall the disc with it disconnected from the Internet and be totally fine.
Sony will survive this I'm sure. Remember that massive hack that took the PS3 network offline for over a month way back in like .. 2011 or 2012?
@hj@coolboymew@mangeurdenuage@noyoushutthefuckupdad I see it more as something that while still having the botnet/DRM brainworms they do care a lot about their customers, unlike the vast majority of corporations (Sony and Nintendo being particularly bad).
But it doesn't makes Steam exempt from criticism on specific points, at least I don't think we should compromise ourselves to see Steam as good, but rather acknowledge the bad points and make informed choices (like how Dad doesn't pays more than 5 bucks).
@coolboymew@djsumdog no the disc still saves on the hard drive itself or whatever SSD/flash drives you have Though I'm 90% sure you are completely fucked if the console itself is banned from ever going online
People won't stop glorifying this fat fucking faggot, but the truth is, this guy is as much of a scumbag as Sony and Microshit.
They tried to fuck around and find out with Australian and Europe consumer laws several times and judges kept telling them to fuck off or comply with their consumer protection laws. The fact Valve is less scummy than other companies is in spite of them, not thanks to them, and more thanks to consumer laws from Europe and Australia.
tldr: Don't be a fucking retard, none of these distribution companies are consumer friendly and if they could, they would fuck you in the ass without thinking twice.
> Steam has been a better deal than pirates
You're clinically retarded if you truly believe DRMed content will somehow be superior in practice and technically than pirated or DRM free content. The only distributor that doesn't completely fucking suck is GOG that has a zero tolerance policy with DRM.
@jihadjimmy@hj@noyoushutthefuckupdad Actually GOG has been attempting to gatekeep their store extremely hard which probably lead to Valve overtaking much more marketplace and GOG not winning as much
All of this is probably partly thanks to games journos complaining about the absolute free market on Valve's storefront a lot during a certain era (which is sus when you consider most of these journos has ties to big companies and indies)
Wrong, GOG has been in terms of distribution, they sell you shit no questions asked, no DRM bullshit involved, you can even download the stuff they sell directly from a web browser without need to ever touching launchers. The only other one that comes close is itch.io but they have no policy to stop devs from implementing their own DRM schemes if they want to.
@coolboymew@hj@noyoushutthefuckupdad@jihadjimmy I know of at least one publisher for games that interested me that desperately tried getting GOG to take the bait and accept their (fairly successful by Steam standards and totally SFW!) games for publication on their storefront but GOG stonewalled and completely refused. I can say many things about Valve, but the standard for customer service and satisfaction they've demonstrated for me in particular is infinitely beyond anything GOG could ever *hope* to accomplish after all the bridges they've deliberately burnt for me. When it comes to DRM free storefronts, I only trust itch.io these days.
@jihadjimmy@hj@noyoushutthefuckupdad except that Gog really fucked up during the early 2010 because reports of "x game wasn't accepted on the Gog storefront" were numerous
For example, Valve opening up the store a lot lead to us getting a shitload of Japanese games. Freshly kickstarted stuff like Undertale which wildly got popular immediately. Where the fuck was Gog? Nowhere because they squandered that opportunity by gatekeeping the store back then
It took GOG like 7 months to get Undertale, by then the biggest sale potential was absolutely gone
The main reason why GOG has less users than Steam is because Valve burns more money on marketing and shiny features that your average gaymur will not hesitate to go for without giving much thought into it, while also trying to be the only store in PC, ironically making them more into gatekeeping than GOG. GOG only sells you copies of stuff that has no DRM, they don't need anything fancy to appeal, people that is actually smart and values ownership will always pick GOG over Steam.
Witcher 3 on SteamOS - we have to thank valve for finally delivering on that one YEARS later Gog Galaxy 2.0 on Linux - yeah haha no No crunch for CP2077 - yeah haha no No DRM but please please please use our gog galaxy 2.0 and also hitman online-only features
They are just all bark and no bite and also full of shit, or should I say Microsoft cum. Sucking on that micro and soft penis while avoiding Linux question as much as possible to the point where you are better off buying game from steam to have a better Linux build of the game.
@allison@hj@noyoushutthefuckupdad@jihadjimmy IIRC some cases were pretty ridiculous. One was a retro looking game (when GOG already was starting to publish other stuff) which would have fit perfectly within GOG and apparently was even ask to submit by someone working there... and it was refused
@jihadjimmy@coolboymew@noyoushutthefuckupdad not really. I use Linux and valve has been overwhelmingly Linux friendly, GOG meanwhile has not. I don't have to install lutris or anything besides steam and its dependencies to game ,meanwhile gog often doesn't even have Linux builds or have outdated ones, and no gog galaxy on Linux either because fuck you.
And if you use windows as your main os or is for gaming... As far as this discussion is concerned you are a nigger and all of your arguments are invalidated. I don't make the rules, sorry.
@coolboymew@hj@noyoushutthefuckupdad@jihadjimmy They didn't allow *any* Degica title except an outdated version of Crimzon Clover World Ignition, and the story is similar for most shmups whether independent or AA.
They may screwed things up but those polish idiots tend to do that every year for the last decade. That being said, GOG offers DRM free shit, Valve gives zero fucks about that and the games that are DRM free are the exception.
@coolboymew@hj@noyoushutthefuckupdad@jihadjimmy I don't know, rumor I heard on the grapevine is that the game selection process is held hostage by Polish boomers and except where their stakeholders demand it they will settle for nothing less than total weeb death.
@allison@hj@noyoushutthefuckupdad@jihadjimmy And now, even they have accepted hentai games to the level where they're literally advertising me Rance in freaking newsletters lmao
@coolboymew@hj@noyoushutthefuckupdad@jihadjimmy To concede one of jihadjimmy's points, those games are by far in the minority. That being said, the SteamStub DRM that the majority of games on Steam use is utterly trivial to crack and there are several ready made solutions to do it which Valve deliberately turns a blind eye to because due to the level of service they provide piracy doesn't actually hurt their bottom line.
@coolboymew@allison@hj@noyoushutthefuckupdad@jihadjimmy this is gog we're talking about Steam after greenlight and then ditching that for "just pay us" is lax on what games they allow. Community moderation is another story of course, but gog is notorious for just not letting devs sell games for no reason.
This is why none of these other storefronts will replace steam
@PurpCat@allison@hj@noyoushutthefuckupdad@jihadjimmy yeah I'm aware, some dude, robin walker or something, was also very against anime. But Valve opening up the storefront was really for the better in the end
@jihadjimmy@hj@coolboymew@noyoushutthefuckupdad I don't see any reason they would within the timescales I care about. Either way, the far bigger issue than *any* digital storefront on PC is the absolute shit show that console gaming is right now, and any legal effort I wish to see should squarely go in this direction.
I think both suck as much on their own, the only difference is that consoles have DRM baked into them, while PC may or may not. At the end of the day all these major distributions can and will fuck you over if they can, regardless of hardware.
There's the shitware stores like EGS/Origin/Battle.net that only existed as a result of Steam policies or something at one time and almost always only carried a single publisher's games (and now games using the latter 2 are on Steam). Nobody cares about them, and numerous people only use them as launchers for some F2P game (be it Fortnite, Apex, or Warzone).
GOG is known for as others in the thread mentioned, being very stingy about what can go in the store without telling you why.
itch.io is only used by the smallest time indies, will remove games that are too politically controversial, and whatnot. They also virtue signal harder than any of the other stores have.
Unless you are big and have "fuck you money" or a game that is so hyped up that you can successfully not release it on the store everyone has (Minecraft, those F2P games, etc.), you basically have to use Steam. The fact that even Microsoft Game Studios had to use Steam after decades of reluctance is very telling.
There are laws for digital ownership, the true issue is that DRM is legal so long it's not used to restrict access to the end user, while it should be illegal altogether (in a perfect world, publicly distributed nonfree software would also be illegal or heavily restricted to specific scenarios as well).
@jihadjimmy@allison@hj@noyoushutthefuckupdad Except that DRM can restrict access to the end user when things has reached end of service. So the digital ownership laws are completely inadequate as of now
They might have had a larger impact 10-15 years ago before Steamworks DRM and services were implemented in many games, moreso before GameSpy and similar were purged (which was still being used in recent games at the time, including ArmA 2/DayZ and ArmA 3).
@coolboymew This is the kind of fuckass customer support that made me forever racist against pajeets. The fucking soulless robotic hr response of "just create a new account sirs, the ticket has been closed sirs, yes thank you goodbye sirs"