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1. pistolero :thispersondoesnotexist: (p@freespeechextremist.com)'s status on Sunday, 26-Nov-2023 13:52:27 JST pistolero :thispersondoesnotexist:

   in reply to

   • ins0mniak
   • m0xEE
   • 'ol Mitch
   • Pawlicker
   @m0xEE @PurpCat @ins0mniak @olmitch
   
   > there are good reasons to have (among other things) slogans in English even for a grassroots protest.
   
   No argument from me there.
   
   > I don't think there's a conspiracy around LGBT protests in Poland,
   
   Show me a language that the CIA isn't hiring translators for.
   
   There's a conspiracy around basically everything, and the US, RF, and (to a greater extent lately) the PRC have stuck their hands in and fiddled with it. Germany, you know what the BMBF is doing lately? They're doing this shit in the US.
   
   > they don't look like something unnatural to me.
   
   Sure, there are organic expressions of political discontent here, but once you have that, it's easy to affix a rudder and steer them. That's how this stuff typically works: you don't manufacture something ex nihilo, you find something that is going on and you steer it. It's way easier (and way cheaper) to redirect a river than to dam it up or create a new river from nothing.
   
   > Probably to the 50-ies era US, but they have their own idea of what it was, their ancestors weren't living in the US in the fifties,
   
   The popular conception of the 1950s version of the US didn't exist in the US, either, if it makes you feel any better. People here are trying to return to a time that we never had.
   
   > And I can only guess, but I think that it's a long game strategy for them.
   
   People care about Hong Kong in the abstract, but the US government is not interested in a war with China no matter how unpopular the PRC government is, so our government only cares about Hong Kong to the extent that it affects trade or the extent to which they can leverage the situation to create trouble for Beijing. I don't doubt that the people of Hong Kong would very much like to not be crushed by Beijing, but it's also the case that we sent funds and guys to direct their protests, and it's also the case that Beijing used charges of espionage as a way to also eject or arrest unfriendly foreign press and domestic agitators that weren't spies.
   
   The best way to look at this is to ask "Why wouldn't they?" Did the US government interfere in Hong Kong? Well, why wouldn't they? Did the Germany interfere in Poland? Why wouldn't they?
   • m0xEE (m0xee@breloma.m0xee.net)'s status on Sunday, 26-Nov-2023 13:52:29 JST m0xEE

     • ins0mniak
     • 'ol Mitch
     • Pawlicker
     @p
     > but the likelihood of astroturfing given that the signs are in English
     Might be, might be not — there is no rule of thumb here, my point is that there are good reasons to have (among other things) slogans in English even for a grassroots protest. I'm not a Pole, but I don't think there's a conspiracy around LGBT protests in Poland, or protests against banning abortions — there are minorities there too, there are women, there are feminists, their protests might be quite genuine, they don't look like something unnatural to me. And I think they did succeed with that actually, PiS does have poor image among western progressives.
     You might say, that the US are in part responsible for that — because people are often looking up to the West and often ape the agenda even when it's not the most glaring problem for their own country, but that's exactly how it works, it's not a direct involvement, I don't think that there is some entity in the US organizing these protests. People copying US agenda blindly is a double-edged sword by the way — because they are now copying the conservative agenda too, and you can't even imagine how alien and out of place it looks. There are people who have a worldview of US conservatives in Russia too, but as they've never been in the US, they have their own interpretation of it that has nothing to do with reality. What exactly they are attempting to conserve, what good old days are they attempting to go back to? Probably to the 50-ies era US, but they have their own idea of what it was, their ancestors weren't living in the US in the fifties, they are former Soviet people, it was USSR just a few decades ago.
     I mean "progressives" — let's just call them that, say a lot of stupid shit too, copying the US blindly, but Russian "conservatives" raised on GOP propaganda are really something :marseylaughwith:
     
     > Well, what's the US going to do about Hong Kong, really?
     Not immediately. And I can only guess, but I think that it's a long game strategy for them. I mean you can see China being popular among people even here on Fedi — China knows their PR game well and people in Hong Kong — whose who would like to keep their westen-like freedoms are attempting to counter that.
     @PurpCat @ins0mniak @olmitch