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1. VidMasterEon (vidmastereon@varishangout.net)'s status on Tuesday, 14-Nov-2023 08:27:10 JST VidMasterEon
   I have been wondering where the "loli bad" "fanservice bad" and "violence in games" bad talking point have originated
   They all talk the same and use the same arguments so it is only natural that people who cant pass the breakfast question and cant generate an original thought so they are just parroting some youtuber and the like
   But who?
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   • salty_apollyon (rlier23@bae.st)'s status on Tuesday, 14-Nov-2023 08:27:09 JST salty_apollyon

     in reply to
     @Vidmastereon call me schizo for this but im pretty sure these sort of ideas started thanks to some midwit tards that wanted pussy.
     
     they let distasteful women in and these women complained about fanservice and other things and the midwits bent to the social pressure.
     
     the first symptoms were things like liking anime "ironically" with shit like abridged series or saying "haha look at this dub it's so cheesy" with series like ghost stories
     
     eventually the holes kept pushing and the midwits desperate to get their dicks wet caved in until we reached this point.
     IMG_20191214_192006.jpg
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   • boloros (boloros@bae.st)'s status on Tuesday, 14-Nov-2023 09:56:46 JST boloros

     in reply to

     • salty_apollyon
     @rlier23 @Vidmastereon with women entering academia as default path, specially the 'quirky and smart' ones, the entire behavioral stack is there, primed and ready to go.
     
     Newer people entering and prevalence of similar imprinted primers makes them go "Don't be weird, it's better than ever / better this way."
     
     Somewhat ready to drop this line of thinking now that I remember the fat(ter) Game Sack guy going into a fit of cute aggression against a game with a loli character in a JP-only system.
     this isn't comicLO nothing's cooking.png
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   • † top dog :pedomustdie: (dcc@annihilation.social)'s status on Tuesday, 14-Nov-2023 11:37:46 JST † top dog :pedomustdie:

     in reply to

     • Christi Junior
     • 香貫花・クランシー
     • Pawlicker
     @PurpCat @ChristiJunior @Soma @Vidmastereon
   • 香貫花・クランシー (soma@detroitriotcity.com)'s status on Tuesday, 14-Nov-2023 11:37:47 JST 香貫花・クランシー

     in reply to

     • Christi Junior
     @ChristiJunior @Vidmastereon In the before times™ I remember that fag Jack Thompson was the number one enemy of fun. The difference was back then pretty much every fan of vidya was united in their hatred of people like him, but today there are a shitload of entryists and their simps that carry water for shitlib talking points. It's a whole lot more effective to poz things from the inside out.
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   • Pawlicker (purpcat@clubcyberia.co)'s status on Tuesday, 14-Nov-2023 11:37:47 JST Pawlicker

     in reply to

     • Christi Junior
     • 香貫花・クランシー
     @Soma @ChristiJunior @Vidmastereon Also in the before times; if the game industry and cartel of retail stores didn't like your game, nobody would carry it.
     
     Postal 2 (which had meh reviews from critics and was always in every single "most offensive game" list next to crummy games made by rednecks and games hyped up solely on being ultraviolent) was such an example, PC copies (especially USA labeled copies) are rare because nobody would stock said game. While GTA was okay, outsiders doing the same thing GTA did found it hard to to get shelf space, especially as their first game was controversial in a different way.
     
     Nowadays everyone and their mom has played Postal 2 because it's on Steam and Postal Redux is on a game console.
     
     The same goes with NSFW games/visual novels; thanks to Steam and piracy and people in this side of the internet talking about them those games have been noticed when literally 10+ years ago is when the Rapelay scandal happened because of westoid journalists looking for games to shit on. In fact you can even find SomethingAwful writers writing posts about how bad "anime porn" games were.
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   • Christi Junior (christijunior@detroitriotcity.com)'s status on Tuesday, 14-Nov-2023 11:37:48 JST Christi Junior

     in reply to
     @Vidmastereon Hillary Clinton and Joe Lieberman would certainly have hated fanservice and cute/funny girls just as much as they'd have demonized violent vidya back in the 90s. I think it was just pro-Censorship GloboHomo fags weaponizing various already existing Normalfag concerns about video games.
   • 獣耳会社ｗａｎ (wan@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 14-Nov-2023 13:11:23 JST 獣耳会社ｗａｎ

     in reply to

     • Christi Junior
     • 香貫花・クランシー
     • Pawlicker
     @Vidmastereon @PurpCat @ChristiJunior @Soma Just wait until you dig into how the until-then nonsense-word-from-an-unrelated-PBF-comic "weeaboo" came to mean "person who touches anything made by the Japanese"...
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   • VidMasterEon (vidmastereon@varishangout.net)'s status on Tuesday, 14-Nov-2023 13:11:24 JST VidMasterEon

     in reply to

     • Christi Junior
     • 香貫花・クランシー
     • Pawlicker
     • 獣耳会社ｗａｎ
     @wan @PurpCat @ChristiJunior @Soma Oh yeah it only recently became known that the term JRPG was manufactured to stigmatize Japanese made RPGs
   • Pawlicker (purpcat@clubcyberia.co)'s status on Tuesday, 14-Nov-2023 13:11:25 JST Pawlicker

     in reply to

     • Christi Junior
     • 香貫花・クランシー
     • Pawlicker
     @Soma @ChristiJunior @Vidmastereon Speaking of the before times; it wasn't uncommon for websites looking for bad games to shit on to sometimes go find the weirdest Japanese games.
     
     In fact I think before the Rapelay scandal broke, SomethingAwful did a review of it (while ironically ending with a Jack Thompson joke...if only he knew what was to come a few years later):
     https://www.somethingawful.com/hentai-game-reviews/rapelay/
     
     A few years later, some journalists found Amazon selling it and wrote a hit piece, it blows up in Japan, and as a result nearly every NSFW game studio protests this whole saga by IP blocking western/foreign IPs and reminding people that their games are "for sale in Japan only". Which admittedly didn't do much for anyone from the west wanting to seek those games out because of piracy, websites like J-List carrying them, and diehard autists using forwarders that don't ban NSFW stuff (FromJapan does, ZenMarket/Buyee/a few more don't), but would stop low-information journalists from finding them.
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   • 獣耳会社ｗａｎ (wan@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 14-Nov-2023 13:11:25 JST 獣耳会社ｗａｎ

     in reply to

     • Christi Junior
     • 香貫花・クランシー
     • Pawlicker
     @PurpCat @ChristiJunior @Soma @Vidmastereon Not just websites. One particularly egregious example I remember was Edge magazine – which for a long time was considered the trendiest and most respectable source of games writing – grabbing an obscure FF7 doujin game that had Aerith nude scenes, strongly implying it was something from the Japanese mainstream, and using it to shit on Japanese games in general.
     
     Don't underestimate the bubbling resentment of Japan (encouraged by American publishers) that flowed beneath a lot of Western games writing of the late '90s to 2010s.
   • VidMasterEon (vidmastereon@varishangout.net)'s status on Tuesday, 14-Nov-2023 15:31:41 JST VidMasterEon

     in reply to

     • Christi Junior
     • 香貫花・クランシー
     • Pawlicker
     @PurpCat @ChristiJunior @Soma
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   • 獣耳会社ｗａｎ (wan@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Nov-2023 02:55:04 JST 獣耳会社ｗａｎ

     in reply to

     • Christi Junior
     • 香貫花・クランシー
     • Pawlicker
     • 獣耳会社ｗａｎ

     @PurpCat @ChristiJunior @Soma @Vidmastereon Found it – here’s the page from EDGE’s Christmas issue of 2003 (issue 131):

     So here we are then, looking smart, clean-shaven and with fresh breath for a date with a Final Fantasy girl… …and YES! Here she is in a very, very short skirt. It’s an adolescent forum-botherer’s dream come true.

     Here’s a theory, if you’ll indulge Edge for a moment. When Ms Gainsborough shuffled off her Final Fantasy immortal coil, her passing didn’t pass into videogame legend because of Square’s complex and involving narrative, or any emotional sophistication on the part of the developer. It came down to this plaintive, imaginary cry from an archetypal adolescent gamer: “OMG OMG! Now I will never see her boObs!” Or maybe that was just Edge. Whatever, all bets are off, because now there’s another way to get your Aeris kicks, aside from soft-focus tribute fan art or necrophiliac fan fiction. Final Fantasy Memorial is a Japanese dating game which gives players the opportunity to woo a selection of Final Fantasy girls, including the (presumably - although given this is the internet there are no guarantees - resurrected) darling of VIl. It looks like it offers the same sort of experience as Tokimeki Memorial (hence the title, Edge supposes), so expect to put in countless hours of thankless toil in the pursuit of a single instant of happiness, a lot like chasing dates in real life. Or the Final Fantasy series, for that matter. A coincidence? More information at: http://x.sakura.ne.jp/-yung/f/ffm/

     Note the careful line walked, where they don’t say it’s an obscure doujin game (and therefore unlicensed) but also don’t not say it. To us, the sakura.ne.jp link is a dead giveaway but the average game magazine reader of 2003 had no idea.

     On its own this would be quite minor, but this was after a big editorial shakeup at the magazine had caused almost all of its existing staff to walk out a few months prior; IIRC, its coverage of Japanese games after this point quickly turned to a steady drumbeat of how bad they were, how Japan’s best days were long behind it, and how terrible it was that they were still making games for people who played games – a classical narrative arc with which you’re doubtless familiar.

   • Pawlicker (purpcat@clubcyberia.co)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Nov-2023 02:55:08 JST Pawlicker

     in reply to

     • Christi Junior
     • 香貫花・クランシー
     • 獣耳会社ｗａｎ
     @wan @ChristiJunior @Soma @Vidmastereon If you really want to dig, the resentment goes even further back with different people. I first found this video from a console warrior on YouTube due to the Nintendo segment (which purposely mixes up Nintendo's bullshit with the Japanese industry, doesn't mention how Nintendo was pushing hard to shut out the other Japanese companies Sega and NEC as well, deliberately takes a jab at how the only USA jobs for Nintendo are marketing/warehousing/playtesting/"tip lines", etc.)
     
     https://yewtu.be/watch?v=uEpSdFfxXac
     
     In this case, there's also a bit of that boomer seethe I mentioned, which was seen with TV shows satirizing the Pokemon seizure incident.
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   • 獣耳会社ｗａｎ (wan@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Nov-2023 02:55:10 JST 獣耳会社ｗａｎ

     in reply to

     • Christi Junior
     • 香貫花・クランシー
     • Pawlicker
     @PurpCat @ChristiJunior @Soma @Vidmastereon Exactly right. The 2000s shift in press and stealth marketing was merely the Americans experimenting with early forms of what was then called "viral marketing" (pioneered in part by Microsoft's original XBOX PR team), but the basic pattern goes back to (((American entertainment capital))) getting their asses handed to them by the Japanese and then kvetching when the usual tactics to buy out, sabotage, or control them via connections didn't work.
     
     This got even worse once (((Hollywood))), who saw games as "thing moving on screen", started to get nervous that games would compete for eyeballs against movies, and moved to try to limit and control their reach.
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   • Pawlicker (purpcat@clubcyberia.co)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Nov-2023 02:55:13 JST Pawlicker

     in reply to

     • Christi Junior
     • 香貫花・クランシー
     • 獣耳会社ｗａｎ
     @wan @ChristiJunior @Soma @Vidmastereon I'd also argue that's when all the cultural embargoes that were there in the past began to fall.
     
     In the 1980s/90s, NoA was trying to promote a squeaky clean image to avoid scandals with low quality or NSFW licensed games, the Japanese computing market was full of computers incompatible with each other and computers literally anywhere else, and if you didn't know a guy all these foreign console games required Japanese language knowledge and weird mail order catalogs to obtain along with some region lock bypass device.
     
     Nowadays there's emulators, every single Japanese game is written for the same OS and hardware the rest of the world uses (this is how Touhou and VNs got huge), and you can go on eBay even to buy a Sharp x68000 even if the prices are methed up. Also now Nintendo is the company that censors the least out of the 3 game console manufacturers.
   • 獣耳会社ｗａｎ (wan@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Nov-2023 02:55:49 JST 獣耳会社ｗａｎ

     in reply to

     • Christi Junior
     • 香貫花・クランシー
     • Pawlicker
     • 獣耳会社ｗａｎ

     @PurpCat @ChristiJunior @Soma @Vidmastereon The general direction of all of this is that after the year 2000, a lot of sub-par writers who knew nothing about gaming were shuttled into games writing to replace the old guard (many of whom did know and care about games) as vaunted culture critics of gaming’s brave new respectable wave instead of, ugh, “blood and guns”. (And boobs – from, ugh, Japan.)

     This suited American publishers down to the ground because this new crop were incredibly compliant to PR men and willing to shift the goalposts wherever they were encouraged to in the name of their parents not being ashamed of them any more. And so: A decades-long cultural embargo against Japanese games and Japanese things in general.

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