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1. CrunkLord420 (crunklord420@clubcyberia.co)'s status on Monday, 06-Nov-2023 06:41:12 JST CrunkLord420
   AI will never become an autonomous threat to humanity because a python dependency would break before it could accomplish anything.
   • xianc78,  and Token like this.
   • Machismo (zerglingman@freespeechextremist.com)'s status on Monday, 06-Nov-2023 18:23:10 JST Machismo

     in reply to
     @crunklord420 Motherfuckers need package management.
   • CrunkLord420 (crunklord420@clubcyberia.co)'s status on Monday, 06-Nov-2023 19:15:38 JST CrunkLord420

     in reply to

     • Machismo
     @Zerglingman actually the problem is they do have package management.
     Machismo likes this.
   • Machismo (zerglingman@freespeechextremist.com)'s status on Monday, 06-Nov-2023 19:16:10 JST Machismo

     in reply to
     @crunklord420 The problem is their package management is beyond shit-tier.
   • 32784 (saxophone3784@clubcyberia.co)'s status on Monday, 06-Nov-2023 20:18:02 JST 32784

     in reply to

     • Machismo
     @Zerglingman @crunklord420 Last week this topic came by and i actually went and asked python "developers" why do they have shit like Conda. It is genuinely like talking to NPCs who just spew pre-made sentences. None of it makes sense, it is just badly thought out instruments made sure that any mentally handicapped person can write a code that runs. The consequences of making coding accessible to everyone has been a disaster for human race.
   • Machismo (zerglingman@freespeechextremist.com)'s status on Monday, 06-Nov-2023 20:18:51 JST Machismo

     in reply to

     • 32784
     @Saxophone3784 @crunklord420 I am a python developer and I don't even know what the fuck conda is.
     I install everything via system package manager, or PKGBUILD. Motherfuckers need package management.
   • Owl (lonelyowl@freespeechextremist.com)'s status on Monday, 06-Nov-2023 20:31:00 JST Owl

     in reply to

     • Machismo
     • 32784
     @Zerglingman @Saxophone3784 @crunklord420
     
     > what the fuck conda is
     
     Something like alternative enviroment and package manager. The deep learning apps actively use this thing. I will not pretend i fully understand what is this and why it was created, but my quick acquaintance with it made me think it is horrible. I will never again install it outside of docker because it tend to fuck up outside system 😭
     Machismo repeated this.
   • Machismo (zerglingman@freespeechextremist.com)'s status on Monday, 06-Nov-2023 20:31:17 JST Machismo

     in reply to

     • Owl
     • 32784
     @lonelyowl @crunklord420 @Saxophone3784 Sounds like motherfuckers need package management.
   • 32784 (saxophone3784@clubcyberia.co)'s status on Monday, 06-Nov-2023 20:37:07 JST 32784

     in reply to

     • Machismo
     • Owl
     @lonelyowl @crunklord420 @Zerglingman Yeah exactly that is the thing. they made up some toy that automatically installs 10 000 packages on your computer. The logic behind it, as far as I can tell is "hey guys, thinking about what packages you akshually need is heckin hard, let's just install everything somewhere on your system".
     And then you have all the packages + some python version installed somewhere on your system and it takes forever to get rid of it.
     I asked people why can't they just use pip or whatever, make a list of packages they need and make virtual environments on their own. The answers I got was basically "but i used conda before".
     
     I legitimately think such pieces of software are developed by morons who want to make sure they have a job in the future. If they make everything complicated and retarded enough, people will always need them to maintain the software.
     
     You have python interpreter and you have packages to it. this is not hard on a basic level. You have the building blocks and you assemble them. I could never tolerate people who just completely pervert these simple ideas.
   • Machismo (zerglingman@freespeechextremist.com)'s status on Monday, 06-Nov-2023 20:38:11 JST Machismo

     in reply to

     • Owl
     • 32784
     @Saxophone3784 @crunklord420 @lonelyowl >I asked people why can't they just use pip or whatever, make a list of packages they need and make virtual environments on their own.
     Pip is hot garbage, the first step to python mastery is uninstalling pip.
     The second step is uninstalling venv, they are also hot garbage.
     On EXTREMELY rare occasion you may find an argument for installing one of both of them. I have yet to, myself.
   • Owl (lonelyowl@freespeechextremist.com)'s status on Monday, 06-Nov-2023 20:38:41 JST Owl

     in reply to

     • Machismo
     • 32784
     @Zerglingman @Saxophone3784 @crunklord420
     
     Or a container, maybe? Because conda enviroments contain not only python packages and interpreter, but also half of the system, their own version of libc, gcc, cuda and other stuff. MAYBE it was used before docker became a thing for the same purposes 🤷♀️
     Machismo repeated this.
   • Machismo (zerglingman@freespeechextremist.com)'s status on Monday, 06-Nov-2023 20:39:22 JST Machismo

     in reply to

     • Owl
     • 32784
     @lonelyowl @crunklord420 @Saxophone3784 Containers are also hot garbage.
     Actually that's a lie, they can be useful for building stuff. Usually a decent package manager is enough though.
   • 32784 (saxophone3784@clubcyberia.co)'s status on Monday, 06-Nov-2023 20:45:55 JST 32784

     in reply to

     • Machismo
     • Owl
     @lonelyowl @crunklord420 @Zerglingman yeah but this is the problem.
     You could just go ahead and say: "Look, in order to do X, you need a container. Container is this thing that contains A,B and C in order to do D".
     Nowhere is this explained. I did not even know that conda installs libc and gcc. Like holy shit, those are such basic and simple concepts, instead it is obfuscated by 1000 lines of soycode.
   • 32784 (saxophone3784@clubcyberia.co)'s status on Monday, 06-Nov-2023 20:49:29 JST 32784

     in reply to

     • Machismo
     • Owl
     @Zerglingman @crunklord420 @lonelyowl You can say that. but they still make the process somehow transparent. You need a package, you use pip tool to download it, package is there.
     You need some sort of virtual environment, that is what venv does. Whether tools are executed well or not, I am lenient because in my opinion the tools are transparent. At least i understand what they conceptually do in contrast to stuff like Conda.
     Machismo likes this.
   • Machismo (zerglingman@freespeechextremist.com)'s status on Monday, 06-Nov-2023 20:49:31 JST Machismo

     in reply to

     • Owl
     • 32784
     @Saxophone3784 @lonelyowl @crunklord420 >You need a package
     That's why your system has a package manager. Unless it doesn't, in which case throw it out and make a better choice.
     >You need some sort of virtual environment
     Why? I have never seen a justification for that. The only *attempt* at a justification I've seen is something about conflicting versions. I think I have encountered such a situation once in my life. (I have encountered things like my AUR helper tool not being able to upgrade a package because one of its dependencies must be upgraded in step, and it can only do one package at a time; it is for that reason that I intend to replace it. Come to think of it, I think I'm actually ready to do that, in maybe 10 lines of bash. That is not, however, a true conflict.)
   • istván (istvan@noagendasocial.com)'s status on Monday, 06-Nov-2023 20:56:19 JST istván

     in reply to

     • Machismo
     • Owl
     • 32784

     @Saxophone3784 @crunklord420 @lonelyowl @Zerglingman If you think this is bad, you should look at the disaster of open source sound or the layers of soy that have been piled onto the once dead simple rc.d.

     Machismo likes this.
   • Machismo (zerglingman@freespeechextremist.com)'s status on Monday, 06-Nov-2023 20:56:42 JST Machismo

     in reply to

     • istván
     • Owl
     • 32784
     @istvan @lonelyowl @crunklord420 @Saxophone3784 It has a name and a file list: pulseaudio.
   • 32784 (saxophone3784@clubcyberia.co)'s status on Monday, 06-Nov-2023 21:06:26 JST 32784

     in reply to

     • Machismo
     • Owl
     @Zerglingman @crunklord420 @lonelyowl
     1. Yeah with package manager you can say that. I use windows because of many reasons, so I prefer pip on windows. The argument "there are better package managers than pip" may be true, but, honestly I would be extremely happy if the issues were solved to the point where we discuss what is the best package manager. At the moment the problem is that majority dont understand what a package manager is and use shit like Conda, which is a next level bullshit.
     2. Regarding venv, I personally never had the need for it as well. As you say, conflicts can arise. I would phrase it like this: sometimes you have to deal with retarded shit others wrote in such a horrible manner that you get many conflicts. And if you need the thing to just work, you make the venv, get all the correct versions and run the program. Imagine you have limited time and really need to run the abomination someone else wrote. Venvs can be comfy for this purpose. You don't destroy your own environment and when the bs is over you just wipe the venv from your system like a bad dream.
     Machismo likes this.
   • Machismo (zerglingman@freespeechextremist.com)'s status on Monday, 06-Nov-2023 21:10:35 JST Machismo

     in reply to

     • Owl
     • 32784
     @Saxophone3784 @lonelyowl @crunklord420 Or I just grep /var/log/pacman, pipe it through another grep or two, and subshell it into pacman -Rus. (Or, better yet, just use a PKGBUILD in the first place. Motherfuckers need package management.)
     Venv is easier than that, so sure, that is that extremely rare circumstance where it's worth using it.
     Those sorts of things barely exist though, generally people publish sane solutions, except where it's some sort of ABSOLUTELY PROPRIETARY firmware or something on some camera from 2002.
     
     >I use windows because of many reasons
     You do this to yourself.
   • istván (istvan@noagendasocial.com)'s status on Monday, 06-Nov-2023 21:10:52 JST istván

     in reply to

     • Machismo
     • Owl
     • 32784

     @Zerglingman @Saxophone3784 @crunklord420 @lonelyowl The last 20 years of computers have really born out my theory than anything being designed by more than ten people turns to utter dog shit.

     Machismo repeated this.
   • Machismo (zerglingman@freespeechextremist.com)'s status on Monday, 06-Nov-2023 21:12:11 JST Machismo

     in reply to

     • istván
     • Owl
     • 32784
     @istvan @lonelyowl @crunklord420 @Saxophone3784 I swear there ought to be an exception in there for like rockets or something.
     But all I am coming up with is "actually you are entirely correct".
   • 32784 (saxophone3784@clubcyberia.co)'s status on Monday, 06-Nov-2023 21:12:51 JST 32784

     in reply to

     • Machismo
     • istván
     • Owl
     @istvan @Zerglingman @crunklord420 @lonelyowl Unironically this. I recently found a complex software written by a single schizo. I don't remember when was the last time i enjoyed working with a software this much. In this cases you feel the idea behind the software and you see that the person cared.
     In everything i use today i sense that no one cared. They just wrote shit code and shipped, because the soylent truck was outside and they couldn't waste more time coding.
     Machismo repeated this.
   • Machismo (zerglingman@freespeechextremist.com)'s status on Monday, 06-Nov-2023 21:13:12 JST Machismo

     in reply to

     • istván
     • Owl
     • 32784
     @Saxophone3784 @lonelyowl @crunklord420 @istvan >I recently found a complex software written by a single schizo.
     :terryapproves:
   • 32784 (saxophone3784@clubcyberia.co)'s status on Monday, 06-Nov-2023 21:13:49 JST 32784

     in reply to

     • Machismo
     • istván
     • Owl
     @istvan @Zerglingman @crunklord420 @lonelyowl
     Example: I recently tried Julia language and I enjoy the idea and some of the execution.
     But the community and people responsible for it, holy shit. Makes me want to uninstall everything.
     Machismo repeated this.
   • istván (istvan@noagendasocial.com)'s status on Monday, 06-Nov-2023 21:14:01 JST istván

     in reply to

     • Machismo
     • Owl
     • 32784

     @Saxophone3784 @crunklord420 @lonelyowl @Zerglingman "Glad I could help."

     † top dog :pedomustdie: likes this.
   • istván (istvan@noagendasocial.com)'s status on Monday, 06-Nov-2023 21:14:08 JST istván

     in reply to

     • Machismo
     • Owl
     • 32784

     @Saxophone3784 @crunklord420 @lonelyowl @Zerglingman You might be interested in ZealOS, a slightly more accessible fork of TempleOS that adds 32-bit color and a network stack.

     https://github.com/Zeal-Operating-System/ZealOS

   • 32784 (saxophone3784@clubcyberia.co)'s status on Monday, 06-Nov-2023 21:15:27 JST 32784

     in reply to

     • Machismo
     • Owl
     @Zerglingman @crunklord420 @lonelyowl that's what i am saying. I myself never had the need for venv, but i can image how previous soydev quit and no one knows how his shit code works. If i just needed his code to run, and was on corporate pc only with windows, i would use venv and be done with it.
     
     A lot of professional software still exists only on windows. Running CAD or scientific computing software on Linux is annoying, slows stuff down and often does not work. The developers support only windows and cannot help with any Linux issue. There is no solution.
     Machismo likes this.
   • Machismo (zerglingman@freespeechextremist.com)'s status on Monday, 06-Nov-2023 21:17:00 JST Machismo

     in reply to

     • Owl
     • 32784
     @Saxophone3784 @lonelyowl @crunklord420 There is a very obvious and straightforward solution, but that involves work, or money to pay someone to do that work.
     🤷 I am looking for employment.
   • 32784 (saxophone3784@clubcyberia.co)'s status on Monday, 06-Nov-2023 21:17:19 JST 32784

     in reply to

     • Machismo
     • istván
     • Owl
     @Zerglingman @crunklord420 @lonelyowl @istvan different one actually. but very terryesque.
     Machismo likes this.
   • istván (istvan@noagendasocial.com)'s status on Monday, 06-Nov-2023 21:19:55 JST istván

     in reply to

     • Machismo
     • Owl
     • 32784

     @Zerglingman @Saxophone3784 @crunklord420 @lonelyowl Several careers ago before I escaped to become a gemstone cutter, I used to consult for IT companies.

     In virtually every case, there were retarded investors, a CEO with a great idea, a CTO who knew his shit in COBOL and Pascal, and a team of 35 soy programmers making a completely non-functional product the CTO didn't understand one part of.

     In every company they thought the solution was to hire more people rather than fire fucking everyone.

   • 32784 (saxophone3784@clubcyberia.co)'s status on Monday, 06-Nov-2023 22:33:11 JST 32784

     in reply to

     • Machismo
     • istván
     • Owl
     @istvan @Zerglingman @crunklord420 @lonelyowl
     I am on the receiving end, meaning i need to use the developed programs for my work. What I have seen most of the time is that the soydevs fall in love with their mentally ill programs and work constantly to "make them better", which makes them not useable for anyone else.
     Machismo likes this.