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In which
:gibbysmile::hacker_f::hacker_s::hacker_e::glowing:
remains unironically committed to dumb ways of interacting with fedi, including/especially weird hacks that lain added to Pleroma as a joke but also @p has done something foolish:
Actually, let me stop right there. There was a post here and it has been removed and replaced with this post because it turns out that the patch itself was an ill-advised divergence.
I had a reason to add some stuff to the "bbs" interface but was typing up a post and said "That code changes rarely enough that it probably still applies cleanly to upstream" and I thought I should check that it has in fact not changed instead of speculating and it *has* changed and this patch probably does not apply cleanly because way better stuff has happened upstream (and I think I might have heard about this at the time and forgotten it) so I will have to (at some point in the future) undo this patch and then try to merge the other stuff from upstream because the upstream one can show threads and that's pretty cool. This one just added likes ("l $id"), reposts ("! $id"), and notifications ("cares", which is somewhat ambiguous until you reason that "cares" was shorter than "notifications" or "notifs" or "worries").
Anyway, I love bloat but had a reason to want to not run a browser to interact with fedi and the ssh client was missing just a little bit of stuff.
:9front::kenbw::pike::dmr::bwksmug::cirnoBaka: vt -x ssh -u p tcp!freespeechextremist.com!10022
:linux::crux::gentoo::archlinux: ssh -p 10022 $your_username@freespeechextremist.com
:freebsd::netbsd::openbsd::dragonflybsd: People think your OS is "weird Linux".
:win3_progman: I don't know, probably you can do this with putty, tell it FSE and port 10022 and your username.
:9front: This is the script I use to get to it from Plan 9: :cirnoSmug:
window -r 184 5 841 473 vt -f /lib/font/bit/vga/unicode.font -b -x ssh -u p tcp!freespeechextremist.com!10022
slight_expansion_of_bbs_interface.patch
slight_expansion_of_bbs_interface.patch
- † top dog :pedomustdie: likes this.
- Machismo repeated this.
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@p >and it *has* changed
It has changed alright.
https://pleroma.social/announcements/2023/10/29/pleroma-release-2.6.0/
>remove BBS/SSH feature, replaced by an external bridge, sshocial.
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@sysrq @p @mint When did pleroma get a update????
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@mint @p
:alexjonesdemons:
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@sysrq @p @mint No one said a word about it, it seems.
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@dcc @mint @p
Uhhhhhh, I dunno.
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@dcc @p @sysrq >2023-10-29 00:00 UTC
I assume the changelog is incomplete since it doesn't even mention custom reacts.
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@mint @p @sysrq O its that type of update..... well im never updating the ui anyways.
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@mint
> remove BBS/SSH feature,
:alexjonescrying2: goddamn it
> replaced by an external bridge, sshocial.
:alexjonessmile2: git clone
> Authentication is a mandatory step and must use SSH pubkey.
> To perform pretty much any actions you must have a valid token in your possession.
:alexjonescrying2: goddammit
It *was* clever that the keys are authorized by a field in the account. Seems like it could fetch the token itself by taking a password, but fine, whatever, I can understand not wanting to ask for a password. But you need a token *and* a pubkey (in the user-visible section of your account's header, even). That's kind of a pain. Seems like you could just get a bearer token and then use the bearer token as the password, so you only need one thing and just one step: ssh server ties to auth with that token, stores it if it works. You'd also not get the problem it currently has where you can only log in
> favourite $ID
I'm sure as hell not tryna type "favourite" instead of "favorite", and I'm not tryna type "favorite" instead of "like" and I'm not tryna type "like" instead of just "l".
It *is* a lot cleaner to just use the HTTP API instead of internal API calls and embedding the thing in the Pleroma server. This is really cool stuff overall, duponin is always doing fun stuff like this. I probably won't use it, too much of it is less comfortable than the existing BBS feature, but it is cool.
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@p @dcc @sysrq You yourself said at one point that reacts would be cool if they were with custom emojis instead of unicode. Why the change of heart?
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@mint @dcc @sysrq
> since it doesn't even mention custom reacts.
Everyone would be happier if we all followed the example and forgot about custom reacts.
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@mint @dcc @sysrq I did say that when they first arrived on fedi, because my initial reaction to them was that they were lame and ugly and I didn't think too far past that. Having seen how that feature played out and how it affected federation, it seems like it was a mistake.
Since Pleroma populates TWKN with posts from people that someone on the server was following, and posts it saw a reference to, before it was just likes, reposts, replies, so it was all stuff that there was a good chance someone on your server wanted to see. This was brilliant, it's possibly my favorite feature, not because it was technically difficult, but because it required careful thinking and insight. It made TWKN better and didn't require anything complicated, no stupid machine learning dystopia, just a small amount of code to build a human-driven feature. When I saw "Likes federate in Pleroma", it made me really impressed with lain, right, like it takes a good head to come up with shit like that. Most programmers just bash code out and don't think about second-order effects, they think about individual features instead of how this sort of thing plays out in the broader system.
The reactions are an activity that creates a reference to a post that someone possibly *didn't* want to see, but also didn't want to expend the effort to reply to. So someone dumps a bunch of wrenches or red Xs over a big pile of posts that they hated seeing on TWKN, those posts (and the threads they are in) all federate to the servers where someone was following Eris^Wbot^Wthe person spamming reactions. It effectively undoes the cool feature. Posts that were undesirable or contentious would federate before, but because people won't usually click "like" or "repost" on something that they hate, and there's a practical limit to how many posts you can reply to, most posts that federated that way were posts that people on the server wanted to see, but it is very low-effort to just wrench 50 posts.
I can't undo that: other servers still send EmojiReactions to FSE and FSE still processes them, even if it rejects them or turns them into Likes or something. But I can avoid contributing to the problem for servers that have someone following FSE and avoid having to deal with the feature locally.
...Plus if you send too many EmojiReact messages, Opal will sue you.
legal_opal.png
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@p @dcc @sysrq As I said before, this is a non-issue unless you're trying to build up an echo chamber with minimal amount of discourse your clique disapproves of. Interaction-driven federation can only go that far as well, if you want discoverability, you're better off using relays, since Pleroma by default includes an instance-wide relay anyone can subscribe to. That's the same mindset I see among the self-proclaimed oldfags of SPC alumni, and the same mindset that contibuted to Akkoma that's inherently hostile to discoverability.
>FSE still processes them, even if it rejects them or turns them into Likes or something.
I was under the assumption that if an activity gets rejected by MRF, its referenced object never gets fetched to begin with. If that's true, ironically, by converting them into likes you're contributing to the perceived problem.
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@mint @dcc @p @sysrq >people mad at funny internet stickers
Some things never change do they?
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@p @dcc @sysrq @mint BASED anti-react post
kill REACTPOSTERs, behead REACTPOSTERs, roundhouse kick REACTPOSTER into the concrete, slam dunk a REACTPOSTER baby into the trash can, crucify filthy REACTPOSTERs, defecate into REACTPOSTERs food, launch REACTPOSTERs into the sun, stir fry REACTPOSTERs in a wok, toss REACTPOSTERs into active volcanoes, urinate into REACTPOSTER's gas tank, Judo throw REACTPOSTERs into a wood chipper, twist REACTPOSTERs heads off, report REACTPOSTERs to the IRS, karate chop REACTPOSTERs in half, curb stomp pregnant REACTPOSTERs, trap REACTPOSTERs in quicksand, Crush REACTPOSTERs in the trash compactor, liquify REACTPOSTERs in a vat of acid, eat REACTPOSTERs, dissect REACTPOSTERs, exterminate REACTPOSTERs in the gas chamber, stomp REACTPOSTER skulls with steel-toed boots, cremate REACTPOSTERs in the oven, lobotomized REACTPOSTERs, mandatory abortions for REACTPOSTERs, grind REACTPOSTER fetuses in the garbage disposal, drown REACTPOSTERs in fried chicken grease, vaporize REACTPOSTERs with a raygun, kick old REACTPOSTERs down the stairs, feed REACTPOSTERs to alligators, slice REACTPOSTERs with a katana.
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@PurpCat @p @sysrq @mint " >people mad at funny internet stickers"
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@PurpCat @p @sysrq @mint People rated my post? lol
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@dcc @p @sysrq @mint "noo why did you rate my post this I'm going to fucking smash my keyboard"
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@mint @dcc @sysrq
> As I said before, this is a non-issue unless you're trying to build up an echo chamber with minimal amount of discourse your clique disapproves of.
It's still wrong, for three reasons, one of them practical.
There are posts you want to see and posts you do not care about. You cannot put all of them in, so you have to prioritize somehow. "People on this server want to see this" is a pretty good criterion for whether or not you store something on the server.
If your server is populated by people that only want to see things they agree with, sure, you'll get an echo chamber, but you already had a shitty collection of people to begin with. I try to eat food that's reasonably healthy and tastes good, because there's finite space in my stomach. It's stupid to eat only candy like a hugbox instance, but it's also stupid to insist that a person should eat equal amounts of good food and poison. Someone replies to something, they (hopefully) put some thought into it, even if they disagreed, and those posts federate. A wrench-spammer puts zero thought into spamming wrenches and doesn't even read the posts that he's indicating his displeasure about: have I built some sort of echo chamber if I don't want to go out of my way to fetch shit even he didn't want to read?
Not just that, but the stupid hivemind "get a load of this guy" pile-on is exactly the echo chamber you are concerned about. The biggest echo chambers that exist here are the canceldon instances and places like nicecrew.digital and that kind of place thrives on reinforcing the echo chamber by engaging in the "two minutes' hate".
You are worried about a problem that does not exist on a server that is due to be replaced and in the mean time does not do anything to stop this problem.
> relays,
Well, you've heard what I have to say about relays. They're not super useful. I put FSE on a shit-ton of relays in 2019 to try to see something besides Gab on TWKN; TWKN was worse for it, it was flooded with shit nobody cared about.
> instance-wide relay
This kind of thing is useful, though.
> same mindset that contibuted to Akkoma
Akkoma is terrified that a member of the public might be able to see a public post. This is not the same as declining to go out of your way to get posts no one cares about.
> I was under the assumption that if an activity gets rejected by MRF, its referenced object never gets fetched to begin with.
Maybe it has been fixed since; rejected activities still pass through the pipeline. "Announce" activities from deactivated users still cause posts to federate here.
> by converting them into likes you're contributing
No, Pleroma federates Likes that originate on the server, but it doesn't pass them along second-hand.
> perceived problem.
TWKN has gone downhill; if I have perceived a problem, that's my perception, but that's more real than a perceived hypothetical non-problem.
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@p @dcc @sysrq >"People on this server want to see this" is a pretty good criterion for whether or not you store something on the server.
"People on this server want to point out a retard" ∈ "People on this server want to see this"
>food analogy
How American of you!
>it's also stupid to insist that a person should eat equal amounts of good food and poison.
Small amounts of poison might bring immunity to larger ones.
>A wrench-spammer puts zero thought into spamming wrenches and doesn't even read the posts that he's indicating his displeasure about
The wrench spammer I know had a clear pattern of doing so. Posts that fit his criteria of being manipulative or trying to pass emotions as objective fact.
>You are worried about a problem [...] on a server that is due to be replaced
I don't, I simply explain my disagreement.
>Well, you've heard what I have to say about relays. They're not super useful.
Maybe the public ones. I stopped using them once there were too much g*rmans on TWKN to mute.
>Maybe it has been fixed since; rejected activities still pass through the pipeline.
I'll test it once Frantech's upstream stips shitting itself. Remind me if I forget.
>"Announce" activities from deactivated users still cause posts to federate here.
I believe deactivation checks are handled on a different pipeline that happens after MRF.
>Pleroma federates Likes that originate on the server, but it doesn't pass them along second-hand.
It still has to fetch the referenced object.
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@PurpCat @mint @dcc @sysrq You blowin' it up for drama purposes. I was asked, I answered, I got objections, I answered.
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@p @dcc @sysrq @mint I'm not talking about you I'm talking about that image of Opal flipping shit over it.
For some terminally online losers internet stickers are SERIOUS BUSINESS
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@mint @dcc @sysrq
> "People on this server want to point out a retard" ∈ "People on this server want to see this"
Sure. It's a dumb reason, it creates drama, reaction-spamming is not the best way to do it. The premise, though, was a person that spams them without reading the posts. It doesn't matter which person did it, you've seen people that do that.
> How American of you!
It was an accurate analogy. The hugbox places only eat candy.
> Small amounts of poison might bring immunity to larger ones.
Apples contain arsenic in trace amounts, and a large amount in the seeds. A trace amount goes unnoticed, but a small amount of arsenic gives you scaly skin and cognitive problems until it's flushed rather than arsenic-immunity.
> Posts that fit his criteria of being manipulative or trying to pass emotions as objective fact.
Sure, but he also would go on tears of just smashing the big red X. Anyway, it's not really about Eris: Eris was mentioned just as an example, "There are people that do this, remember this guy?" Which one he used for which doesn't matter.
> I don't, I simply explain my disagreement.
If we've already been through this and we've both heard the other's thoughts on it, we could talk about something else.
> Maybe the public ones. I stopped using them once there were too much g*rmans on TWKN to mute.
Reasonable.
> I'll test it once Frantech's upstream stips shitting itself. Remind me if I forget.
At least one of us will remember. My test was essentially a handful of attempts to figure out why it was that a post federated. Invariably, if there were no people following the poster and no visible likes/reposts, viewing it on the origin instance resulted in finding a previously deactivated person reposting it. So the test would be something like following a user, deactivating without the undo of the follow propagating, and then having an announce from that user propagate to the server where they're deactivated.
> It still has to fetch the referenced object.
Sure, which is why I say I can't do anything about the problem this creates for the network, only the problem that it creates in the UI.
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@p @dcc @sysrq >a small amount of arsenic gives you scaly skin and cognitive problems until it's flushed rather than arsenic-immunity.
Always ate apples whole, together with the seeds, sometimes even with that nub of the branch. Never noticed any itchiness.
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@p @dcc @sysrq Shoot yourself with small caliber bullets to become immune to .45 ACP.
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@mint @dcc @p @sysrq I think apple seeds contain high amounts of cyanide, not arsenic. It’s more poisonous, but still not nearly enough for you to poison yourself by eating apples
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@PurpCat @dcc @mint @sysrq Oh, yeah, my mistake.
I don't know, Opal used to flip out over anything. She lost her shit over Jojo on multiple occasions.
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@PurpCat @p @sysrq @mint Lol
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@mint @dcc @sysrq You've got to rupture the seeds. If you eat the seeds whole, they're indigestible, they just pass through, but if you grind the seeds up, you'll get ill.
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@p @dcc @sysrq @mint what doesn't opal flip out on tbh, I've seen opal threaten to leave the fedi at least once before.
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@PurpCat @dcc @mint @sysrq Yeah, her last "quitting fedi forever" lasted two months. "I'm changing my password to something random and then logging out forever!" and then she's back. I don't know, she hasn't caused any trouble that propagated to this region since she quit fedi forever (again), so I'm happy to not turn over that rock.
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@p @dcc @sysrq @mint hmm thank you for this information that I will totally not use to poison anyone
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@pwm @dcc @mint @sysrq It turns out that forensics labs are really good at detecting poisoning by this kind of strategy.
But @Inginsub is correct, it's cyanide rather than arsenic. I think the reason I remembered arsenic is that Turing died by eating an apple that had arsenic contamination. (Generally believed to be a suicide.)
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@mint @dcc @sysrq someone please call 911 send toot
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@Inginsub @dcc @mint @sysrq Ouch. So you were, like, shoveling the spinach in for how long?
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@p @dcc @sysrq @mint Spinach contains enough oxalates to be toxic or cause kidney stones, but it’s more of a problem with prolonged consumption. I had kidney pains for over a month.
As far as I can see, thermal decomposition of oxalates starts at over 300C, which is way above cooking temperature.
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@p @dcc @sysrq @mint flashback to the day my ex fed me nearly enough spinach to cause kidney failure
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@Inginsub @dcc @mint @sysrq Shit, seriously? Shit, that is rough. Raw or does stewed spinach do that too? Because I think I can eat an entire pound of stewed spinach, I'm pretty sure I have before.
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@Inginsub @dcc @mint @sysrq Vegetal too complicated, I will eat only meat now.
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@Inginsub @mint @dcc @sysrq RIGHT SHIT YES, CYANIDE
What has arsenic in it?
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@p @dcc @sysrq @mint I heard that rice contains high amounts of arsenic. Idk if it’s in the seed proper or in the bran
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@p @dcc @Inginsub @sysrq @mint popeyemaxxing
pistolero :thispersondoesnotexist:
† top dog :pedomustdie:
احمدابن محمد الخيام
Pawlicker
Lumeinshin 3rd impact :asukaPout:
:ihavenomouth:
pwm
nukie
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