Conversation

Notices

1. Scott Jenson (scottjenson@social.coop)'s status on Wednesday, 18-Jan-2023 11:05:53 JST Scott Jenson

   Apple just announced Mac Minis with the M2 and M2 Pro chips, starting at $599. I'd be tempted but Apple keeps "iOS-izing MacOS" which feels like going in the wrong direction.

   I like the Mac not because of the OS but the absolutely stunning indie apps out there.
   https://www.theverge.com/2023/1/17/23387288/apple-mac-mini-m2-pro-price-release-date-specs-features

   • Gen X-Wing (breadbin@bitbang.social)'s status on Wednesday, 18-Jan-2023 11:05:43 JST Gen X-Wing

     in reply to

     @scottjenson I think it stems from me being so big on consistency, and that being what bothers me the most.

     If each individual app is in every way fantastic, but utterly different from the other apps, it frustrates me badly.

     But that is as you say one aspect of it. It’s not that you can “encode” UX in a library and then all is good. Then as you say there’s arranging things logically, figuring out personas and use cases. Naming is a big one.

     But if my dialog buttons always says yes/no:(

   • Gen X-Wing (breadbin@bitbang.social)'s status on Wednesday, 18-Jan-2023 11:05:45 JST Gen X-Wing

     in reply to

     @scottjenson #FOSS is kind of a rebellious thing. There are a lot of “then I’ll leave and do my thing”. Just look at all the distros.

     So I think part of it is “none of your UX stuff here”, but also a dislike of organization and strong leadership.

     I might be thinking like a developer here, but fixing individual apps won’t fix the core of the problem. I think there needs to be a Cocoa (Touch) moment where good UX is the default and easy. Then you bring it up to great individually in apps.

   • Scott Jenson (scottjenson@social.coop)'s status on Wednesday, 18-Jan-2023 11:05:45 JST Scott Jenson

     in reply to

     • Gen X-Wing

     @breadbin I don't disagree that better libraries will help but, forgive me, assuming that's the primary problem *is* thinking a bit like a developer ;-)

     There is so much great UX that can happen outside of libraries. Much of UX is just prioritizing what you've got, bringing the core use cases forward, improving labels, and adjusting layout. I'm over simplifying a bit but it really can be "just moving icons around" which doesn't always require a library.

     Adrian Cochrane repeated this.
   • Gen X-Wing (breadbin@bitbang.social)'s status on Wednesday, 18-Jan-2023 11:05:48 JST Gen X-Wing

     in reply to

     @scottjenson I bought myself a PC for the first time since leaving Sweden in 2010 and put KDE on it. Have had it for a month or so now. Just to ease myself into the possibility of a MacOS free future.

     It’s a mixed bag. Some things are as bad as in the 90s, some have improved.

     But that last 10% is so very elusive, and what MacOS used to be so fantastic at. That singular vision of good UX (I mean everyone stumbles, but they were very ahead. I don’t see anyone copying them now:/).

   • Scott Jenson (scottjenson@social.coop)'s status on Wednesday, 18-Jan-2023 11:05:48 JST Scott Jenson

     in reply to

     • Gen X-Wing

     @breadbin Completely agree. I'd argue that Linux feels just a bit worse than PC, getting that 'last 20%' is what is holding it back.

     I started into #FOSS with the hope of working on a few creative apps, trying to close that gap but ran into "FOSS head winds" where the predominant approach was developer centered, not creative centered and got a bit discouraged. Trying to make changes to these apps, which are run by folks that don't really "get" UX is frustrating.

   • Gen X-Wing (breadbin@bitbang.social)'s status on Wednesday, 18-Jan-2023 11:05:50 JST Gen X-Wing

     in reply to

     @scottjenson The dumbing down of MacOS doesn’t bode well for developers, and if they leave for Linux, Apple is in trouble. A platform without developers won’t survive long term.

     What kills me with Linux, and in my case KDE, is the lack of refinement. For example the keyboard shortcuts. The windows and menu buttons are just a bad idea, and using them as Meta isn’t a much greater experience due to the high level of inconsistency. I have to use a different copy paste in terminal and my browser…

   • Scott Jenson (scottjenson@social.coop)'s status on Wednesday, 18-Jan-2023 11:05:50 JST Scott Jenson

     in reply to

     • Gen X-Wing

     @breadbin Yeah, I hear you. I've been trying to leave MacOS and what keeps me is the quality of the various creative apps on mac. There are just so many great apps that do the job really well. Nearly every creative app on Linux feels like GIMP: powerful yet needlessly complex.

   • Scott Jenson (scottjenson@social.coop)'s status on Wednesday, 18-Jan-2023 11:05:52 JST Scott Jenson

     in reply to

     Ultimately, I'd like to see a suite of Linux apps come up and compete. That feels like the right solution.