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1. Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 21-Sep-2023 18:51:58 JST Moon
   Starting to hate Docker. Download open source project, there's a docker-compose.yml to run it. All the configuration is in docker images on dockerhub, not in the fucking project. Deleted.
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   • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 21-Sep-2023 18:56:22 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

     in reply to
     @Moon many such cases. Technically you could take the time to split it all out and remove the need for docker but what a pain in the ass.
     
     Containerization is a net good, but docker popularity has resulted in halfwits considering docker images as equal to software packages.
   • Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 21-Sep-2023 18:57:21 JST Moon

     in reply to

     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
     @thatguyoverthere Yeah that's basically it, it's a bunch of work to tear apart the existing undocumented containers to figure out how it works
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   • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 21-Sep-2023 19:08:38 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

     in reply to

     • :gnu:+bonifartius 𒂼𒄄
     @bonifartius @Moon a lot of people using docker as a package manager don't even seem to really appreciate dependency management. "It works in the container" is good enough. I think that's also kind of why there is almost never any good documentation.
   • :gnu:+bonifartius 𒂼𒄄 (bonifartius@qoto.org)'s status on Thursday, 21-Sep-2023 19:08:39 JST :gnu:+bonifartius 𒂼𒄄

     in reply to

     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

     @thatguyoverthere @Moon containers for most resonably well coded things a dedicated unix user would be enough separation.

     unfortunately most things aren't coded reasonably well now and instead are depending on all kind of specific bullshit so that you need bespoke docker setups.

     i guess i only want my 2005 linux back xD

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   • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 21-Sep-2023 19:54:59 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

     in reply to

     • :gnu:+bonifartius 𒂼𒄄
     @bonifartius @Moon Well I'd say lxc had uses outside of strictly development, but yeah docker started as just kind of an abstraction layer over lxc that made it easier to use. I think making unportable code more portable was more of a side effect of containerization, but I agree docker making it easy has only made the problems worse.
   • :gnu:+bonifartius 𒂼𒄄 (bonifartius@qoto.org)'s status on Thursday, 21-Sep-2023 19:55:00 JST :gnu:+bonifartius 𒂼𒄄

     in reply to

     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

     @thatguyoverthere @Moon didn't docker start as something like vagrant? reproducible development environments because things already were quite bad in terms of portability. turns out that making it easier to write unportable software doesn't make things better..

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   • Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 21-Sep-2023 19:55:14 JST Moon

     in reply to

     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
     • :gnu:+bonifartius 𒂼𒄄
     @bonifartius @thatguyoverthere it was always meant as a production deployment thing in addition to being used for reproducible build environments.
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   • Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 21-Sep-2023 20:32:48 JST Moon

     in reply to

     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
     • :gnu:+bonifartius 𒂼𒄄
     @thatguyoverthere @bonifartius it's an abstraction over linux containers not lxc proper. linux containers aren't even strictly a first class citizen of the linux kernel from what I can tell they are a collection of kernel features that can namespace parts that, when orchestrated, act like an entire namespaced kernel.
     
     lxc containerizes the entire OS including userland, each container has its own init manager like systemd or openrc or something, and is multiuser and multiprocess. Docker has one user, and one process that is directly launched inside the container without any sort of init manager.
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   • Niclas Hedhman (niclas@angrytoday.com)'s status on Friday, 22-Sep-2023 00:41:38 JST Niclas Hedhman

     in reply to

     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
     • :gnu:+bonifartius 𒂼𒄄

     @thatguyoverthere

     And the really underlying problem (that continue to make things worse) is that people are lazy and ignorant. And the explosion of more "developers" (doubling every 5 years or so) has only slowed a little bit lately, and we are in a constant shock of "no experience" everywhere.

     @bonifartius @Moon

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