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1. bengo (bengo@mastodon.social)'s status on Friday, 15-Sep-2023 15:38:14 JST bengo

   • W3C (moved to @w3c@w3c.social)

   In a few weeks @w3c social web community group meeting may receive a proposal to explore chartering new social web working group that would only be open to people who work at W3C member companies. (The CG is open to all). Today there was an in person discussion at TPAC, the yearly W3C-wide f2f. It was a day-of addition to the agenda.
Now is a good time to join the CG, subscribe to mailing list, and start participating in the discussions.
https://www.w3.org/community/SocialCG/
#vote #activitypub

   • Aral Balkan (aral@mastodon.ar.al)'s status on Friday, 15-Sep-2023 15:38:13 JST Aral Balkan

     in reply to

     • W3C (moved to @w3c@w3c.social)

     @bengo @w3c How surprising and entirely unpredictable of them to try and corporate capture the fediverse.

   • bengo (bengo@mastodon.social)'s status on Friday, 15-Sep-2023 16:31:57 JST bengo

     in reply to

     • Aral Balkan
     • W3C (moved to @w3c@w3c.social)

     @aral @w3c The CG is open to all of us and generally should seek consensus for all decisions. You can disagree on list and in the open meeting (as long as it’s a CG and not a WG).
     This is one proposal by one person, not a @w3c action, and it will fail to reach consensus as long as at least one person expresses concern/objection, eg a concern that a WG could de facto capture the fediverse. Trust the process (or not!)

   • Aral Balkan (aral@mastodon.ar.al)'s status on Friday, 15-Sep-2023 16:31:57 JST Aral Balkan

     in reply to

     • W3C (moved to @w3c@w3c.social)

     @bengo @w3c I have to say I don’t have a huge amount of trust in the corporate standards body of surveillance capitalism but here’s hoping you’re right.

   • Aral Balkan (aral@mastodon.ar.al)'s status on Saturday, 16-Sep-2023 06:19:09 JST Aral Balkan

     in reply to

     • Evan Prodromou

     @evan @bengo These all sound good, Evan. The only thing I’d add, which is unrealistic, is open acknowledgment that some of the W3C members are actually threats to the fediverse and should not be included in this. I’m thinking Google. I’m thinking Facebook. I’m thinking surveillance capitalists in general. And the reason it’s unrealistic is because the W3C is primarily the standards body of these surveillance capitalists. They’re the paid up members. This is a problem.

   • Evan Prodromou (evan@cosocial.ca)'s status on Saturday, 16-Sep-2023 06:19:10 JST Evan Prodromou

     in reply to

     • Aral Balkan

     @aral @bengo last thing would be **Tight scope**. So, backwards compatible, focus on AS2 and AP, not a fishing expedition.

     Aral Balkan repeated this.
   • Evan Prodromou (evan@cosocial.ca)'s status on Saturday, 16-Sep-2023 06:19:11 JST Evan Prodromou

     in reply to

     • Aral Balkan

     @aral @bengo **Transparency** I mentioned minutes and meetings. I really like Ben's idea of recorded meetings and automated transcription. Doing other work, like regular public blogging or reporting, might also help a lot.

     Aral Balkan repeated this.
   • Evan Prodromou (evan@cosocial.ca)'s status on Saturday, 16-Sep-2023 06:19:12 JST Evan Prodromou

     in reply to

     • Aral Balkan

     @aral @bengo

     **Participation**. Ben mentioned this up front. We'd need to make sure that a wide array of people can participate in decision-making; not just representatives of W3C member organisations.

     (I think it's noteworthy that W3C members are not all tech companies. Lots of libraries, universities, Open Source foundations, and similar participants. See https://www.w3.org/membership/list/ ).

     Keeping most of the work in the CG, and just using WG for limited doc editing, is probably a good idea here.

     Aral Balkan repeated this.
   • Evan Prodromou (evan@cosocial.ca)'s status on Saturday, 16-Sep-2023 06:19:13 JST Evan Prodromou

     in reply to

     • Aral Balkan

     @aral @bengo so, I would like to make iterative changes to the ActivityPub and Activity Streams 2.0 documents that make them easier to read and use for software developers.

     I wonder if there are some guardrails we could put on that process that would let us get those benefits to the fediverse without ruining it for everyone.

     Here are some thoughts.

     Aral Balkan repeated this.
   • 𝓼𝓮𝓻𝓪𝓹𝓪𝓽𝓱【ツ】☮(📍🇬🇧) (serapath@mastodon.gamedev.place)'s status on Saturday, 16-Sep-2023 06:36:36 JST 𝓼𝓮𝓻𝓪𝓹𝓪𝓽𝓱【ツ】☮(📍🇬🇧)

     in reply to

     • Aral Balkan
     • Evan Prodromou

     @aral @evan @bengo
     and lets not forget other members of the W3C, like....

     w3c means e.g. adobe, airbnb, alibaba, amazon, apple, AT&T, Autodesk, Avast, Cisco, Cloudflare, Comcast, Google, Huawei, IBM, Intel, Lenovo, LG, Mastercard, Meta, Mitsubishi, Netflix, Microsoft, Nvidia, Oracle, Qualcomm, Salesforce, Samsung, SAP, Shopify, Siemens, Softbank, Sony, Tencent, Verisifn, Viacom, VISA, Volkawagen, Volvo, Disney, Yahoo, Zoom, ... next to others

   • Aral Balkan (aral@mastodon.ar.al)'s status on Saturday, 16-Sep-2023 06:38:27 JST Aral Balkan

     in reply to

     • Evan Prodromou

     @bengo @evan Thanks, I hadn’t seen that :)

   • bengo (bengo@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 16-Sep-2023 06:38:28 JST bengo

     in reply to

     • Aral Balkan
     • Evan Prodromou

     @evan @aral (just to connect the threads) I think Evan refers to my comment here https://mastodon.social/@bengo/111070356827784617

   • Aral Balkan (aral@mastodon.ar.al)'s status on Saturday, 16-Sep-2023 06:40:21 JST Aral Balkan

     in reply to

     • 𝓼𝓮𝓻𝓪𝓹𝓪𝓽𝓱【ツ】☮(📍🇬🇧)
     • Evan Prodromou

     @serapath @bengo @evan PS. The *Big Web* is hostile to peer to peer. The Small Web *is* (or at least will be, once it’s a thing) peer to peer.

     https://ar.al/2023/02/20/end-to-end-encrypted-kitten-chat/

     #SmallWeb #BigWeb #SmallTech #BigTech #peerToPeer #p2p #web

   • bengo (bengo@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 16-Sep-2023 06:40:22 JST bengo

     in reply to

     • Aral Balkan
     • Evan Prodromou

     @aral @evan It's interesting. The W3C submitted an application for 501c3 status in Dec 2022, ostensibly volunteering to be regulated to ensure it serves the *public interest*.

     https://www.w3.org/press-releases/2022/w3c-le/

   • 𝓼𝓮𝓻𝓪𝓹𝓪𝓽𝓱【ツ】☮(📍🇬🇧) (serapath@mastodon.gamedev.place)'s status on Saturday, 16-Sep-2023 06:40:22 JST 𝓼𝓮𝓻𝓪𝓹𝓪𝓽𝓱【ツ】☮(📍🇬🇧)

     in reply to

     • Aral Balkan
     • Evan Prodromou

     @bengo @aral @evan
     means nothing.
     not all 501c3's are the same.
     The web is hostile towards peer to peer. Why?
     Because of the way it is made and governed.

     You need to find people who support a specific way of doing things. A shared purpose.
     Corporations should not be part of that, especially not those big tech folks that brought the web to where it is today

   • bengo (bengo@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 16-Sep-2023 06:54:17 JST bengo

     in reply to

     • Aral Balkan
     • 𝓼𝓮𝓻𝓪𝓹𝓪𝓽𝓱【ツ】☮(📍🇬🇧)
     • Evan Prodromou

     @aral @serapath @evan Love your stuff @aral . Thanks for working on it!

   • Aral Balkan (aral@mastodon.ar.al)'s status on Saturday, 16-Sep-2023 06:54:17 JST Aral Balkan

     in reply to

     • 𝓼𝓮𝓻𝓪𝓹𝓪𝓽𝓱【ツ】☮(📍🇬🇧)
     • Evan Prodromou

     @bengo @serapath @evan 💕