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1. Aral Balkan (aral@mastodon.ar.al)'s status on Wednesday, 30-Aug-2023 07:27:27 JST Aral Balkan

   Mozilla is a for-profit not-for-profit. And that’s all you need to know to explain everything that doesn’t seem to make sense about the chasm between what they say and what they do.

   #mozilla #hypocritical #bullshit

   • Aral Balkan (aral@mastodon.ar.al)'s status on Wednesday, 30-Aug-2023 07:38:15 JST Aral Balkan

     in reply to

     • James Bartlett :terminal:

     @JamesDBartlett3 Yes, they are.

     Mozilla is a not-for-profit that owns a for-profit that pays its CEO millions. Oh, and they also exist because Google pays them half a billion dollars every year.

     Have you donated yet?

   • James Bartlett :terminal: (jamesdbartlett3@techhub.social)'s status on Wednesday, 30-Aug-2023 07:38:16 JST James Bartlett :terminal:

     in reply to

     @aral
     Can you explain what you mean by a for-profit not-for-profit? Those seem like mutually exclusive attributes.

   • Aral Balkan (aral@mastodon.ar.al)'s status on Wednesday, 30-Aug-2023 07:46:51 JST Aral Balkan

     in reply to

     • MatthewToad43
     • Ian Campbell

     @matthewtoad43 @neurovagrant A better alternative would have to be funded in a better manner. Specially, from the commons, for the common good.

     I’d love to see an EU initiative to fund an independent browser but given what the folks funding EU tech are funding, I won’t be holding my breath.

   • MatthewToad43 (matthewtoad43@climatejustice.social)'s status on Wednesday, 30-Aug-2023 07:46:52 JST MatthewToad43

     in reply to

     • Ian Campbell

     @neurovagrant @aral I would welcome suggestions on this. Maintaining a modern web browser is hard, even Microsoft uses Chrome. And Google is demonstrably far more evil than Mozilla. Most notably because it is Google who is now pushing the old TCPA "remote attestation" nightmare, not (or as well as) Microsoft.

     If you have a better alternative than Firefox I'd love to hear about it.

   • Ian Campbell (neurovagrant@masto.deoan.org)'s status on Wednesday, 30-Aug-2023 07:46:53 JST Ian Campbell

     in reply to

     @aral Browser-wise, what do you advocate these days?

   • Jer Warren (nyquildotorg@fedia.social)'s status on Wednesday, 30-Aug-2023 07:48:10 JST Jer Warren

     in reply to

     @aral@mastodon.ar.al I've spoken to a number of ex mozilla employees over the years as my diatribes against mozilla have ramped up and one thing is super super clear now: regardless of any actual intent, mozilla has been essentially trapped by Google's unlimited privacy violation payments. There may be a desire to stop wasting hundreds of millions of Google's dollars every year in favor of wasting money they earned honestly, but it is never, ever going to happen.
     
     Nothing they do will ever shake the fact that they can't even keep up with Chromium when Google pays them to do so, and that the second Google decides to stop funding them they are completely fucked.
     
     I think the only responsible thing they could do at this point is fire the C-suite, shut down the for-profit company and let Google continue to fund the not-for-profit until they don't anymore. Stop trying to be profitable and start trying to make a goddamned browser 🤷

   • Aral Balkan (aral@mastodon.ar.al)'s status on Wednesday, 30-Aug-2023 08:02:52 JST Aral Balkan

     in reply to

     • James Bartlett :terminal:

     @JamesDBartlett3 Yeah, it shouldn’t be allowed. But, hey, capitalism is a real gas.

   • James Bartlett :terminal: (jamesdbartlett3@techhub.social)'s status on Wednesday, 30-Aug-2023 08:02:53 JST James Bartlett :terminal:

     in reply to

     @aral
     I'm a little confused about how a not-for-profit can be allowed to have a for-profit subsidiary. Seems completely out-of-line with the entire purpose of not-for-profit organizations.
     No, I never donate to anything I haven't thoroughly investigated first, and I haven't looked into Mozilla lately, though it sounds like I would probably not like what I found if I did.

   • Aral Balkan (aral@mastodon.ar.al)'s status on Wednesday, 30-Aug-2023 08:04:35 JST Aral Balkan

     in reply to

     • MatthewToad43
     • Ian Campbell

     @matthewtoad43 @neurovagrant We can separate funding from the commons (i.e., our taxes at the EU level) with government control. Not that I see it happening anytime soon.

   • MatthewToad43 (matthewtoad43@climatejustice.social)'s status on Wednesday, 30-Aug-2023 08:04:37 JST MatthewToad43

     in reply to

     • Ian Campbell

     @aral @neurovagrant Why does it have to be government money? That is almost as precarious as taking Google's search money!

     Whole global news gathering organisations are funded in large part through donations and largely optional subscriptions.

     There are questions over how much of Mozilla's budget is actually necessary, of course, if the argument is that only the search engines can pay the amounts needed. They have a huge surplus.

   • Aral Balkan (aral@mastodon.ar.al)'s status on Wednesday, 30-Aug-2023 08:05:33 JST Aral Balkan

     in reply to

     • MatthewToad43
     • James Bartlett :terminal:

     @matthewtoad43 @JamesDBartlett3 Yes, this is truly the way things are.

   • MatthewToad43 (matthewtoad43@climatejustice.social)'s status on Wednesday, 30-Aug-2023 08:05:35 JST MatthewToad43

     in reply to

     • James Bartlett :terminal:

     @JamesDBartlett3 @aral Many charities have wholly owned for-profit subsidiaries. Either to raise funds or to provide services. Or even sometimes to avoid rules on getting too involved in politics.

   • Aral Balkan (aral@mastodon.ar.al)'s status on Wednesday, 30-Aug-2023 17:03:05 JST Aral Balkan

     in reply to

     • Mike 🏳️‍🌈

     @bigmike It’s not exactly rocket science, is it? And yet still some tech folks seem incapable of understanding it.

   • Mike 🏳️‍🌈 (bigmike@ruhr.social)'s status on Wednesday, 30-Aug-2023 17:03:06 JST Mike 🏳️‍🌈

     in reply to

     @aral Without Google’s money, Firefox would be history. Does anyone think there’s no influence by Google 😉

   • Aral Balkan (aral@mastodon.ar.al)'s status on Wednesday, 30-Aug-2023 17:08:55 JST Aral Balkan

     in reply to

     • starbreaker

     @starbreaker This isn’t “a take”, it’s just a statement of fact.

     Mozilla is a not-for-profit that owns a for-profit.

     Fact.

     Mozilla wouldn’t exist if Google didn’t pay it half a billion dollars every year.

     Fact.

     A “take” would have to been to say “don’t use Firefox.” Did I say that?

     Nope.

     Did I even mention Firefox?

     Nope.

     (If you can, use a private-by-default fork of Firefox like LibreWolf. If not, make sure you tweak the settings to protect yourself. Now *that’s* a take.)

   • starbreaker (starbreaker@libranet.de)'s status on Wednesday, 30-Aug-2023 17:08:56 JST starbreaker

     in reply to
     @aral You usually have good takes, but this isn't one of them. What are people supposed to use instead of Firefox? Maybe #GNU #IceCat or #LibreWolf? That might work for you and me, but it's gonna be a hard sell for people who have enough trouble choosing #Firefox over #Chrome and #Edge.
   • JK (jamienk@mastodon.social)'s status on Wednesday, 30-Aug-2023 17:12:42 JST JK

     in reply to

     @aral Sorry but that's NOT all I need to know. It's an example of INNUENDO in place of information or argument.

     You are accusing Moz of immoral behavior and imply not to use Firefox?

     This is yet more of the bullshit that /. dumped on us for so many years - people acting like there's a moral equiv or tech hidden agenda when comparing FF and say Chrome, Edge, Safari. There's NO comparison.

     This isn'tt a reasonable critique of Moz - just throwing shade and being part of an AstroTurf movement.

   • Aral Balkan (aral@mastodon.ar.al)'s status on Wednesday, 30-Aug-2023 17:12:42 JST Aral Balkan

     in reply to

     • JK

     @jamienk Just go away. Seriously. I’m not an idiot whisperer.

     (And maybe one day you’ll learn the difference between people who are trying to help you and corporations that are trying to exploit you.)

   • Aral Balkan (aral@mastodon.ar.al)'s status on Wednesday, 30-Aug-2023 17:20:38 JST Aral Balkan

     in reply to

     • MatthewToad43
     • James Bartlett :terminal:

     @matthewtoad43 @JamesDBartlett3 And some lay off hundreds of people while giving their CEO a raise and paying them millions.

     And then jump into NFTs before being shamed.

     And then become venture capitalists.

     And then jump on the AI bandwagon.

     And produce a browser that is not private by default.

     And their head of public policy tells you: “Aral, I don’t understand why you’re holding us to a higher standard… We’re just another Silicon Valley tech company.”

   • Aral Balkan (aral@mastodon.ar.al)'s status on Wednesday, 30-Aug-2023 17:21:52 JST Aral Balkan

     in reply to

     • Adinda

     @Adinda I use them today. Under no illusion they will one day exit as they are venture capital funded.

   • Adinda (adinda@maly.io)'s status on Wednesday, 30-Aug-2023 17:21:54 JST Adinda

     in reply to

     @aral What is your stance on DuckDuck?

   • Aral Balkan (aral@mastodon.ar.al)'s status on Thursday, 31-Aug-2023 06:17:31 JST Aral Balkan

     in reply to

     • rugk
     • Jer Warren

     @rugk @nyquildotorg Goodness, would you also defend Greenpeace if it was almost wholly funded by Shell?

   • rugk (rugk@chaos.social)'s status on Thursday, 31-Aug-2023 06:17:32 JST rugk

     in reply to

     • Jer Warren

     @nyquildotorg @aral what are "Google's unlimited privacy violation payments"? Privacy fines gets the state, not Mozilla?

     Also the nonprofit part of Mozilla aka the foundation makes no browser and AFAIK google does not fund it. They never did. They'd just used it to promote their search engine and maybe to prevent antitrust issues etc.

   • GNU Too (gnu2@gnusocial.jp)'s status on Tuesday, 07-Nov-2023 15:36:22 JST GNU Too

     in reply to
     even non-profits need to make money. All non-profit means is there is no "owner" that has their income based on how much money the company makes.