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1. condret :verified: :ancom: :radare2:<|<| (condret@shitposter.club)'s status on Sunday, 23-Jul-2023 12:06:30 JST condret :verified: :ancom: :radare2:<|<|
   there should be some eu legislation that enforces resellability of video games purchased offline and online
   • cool_boy_mew likes this.
   • cool_boy_mew (coolboymew@shitposter.club)'s status on Sunday, 23-Jul-2023 12:12:56 JST cool_boy_mew

     in reply to
     @condret Yes
     
     It's overexgagerated a little, but games shipping incomplete or broken (meaning that once the system is down, your game might be a paperweight) is a fucking problem. Not all games ships like that, but a LOT of games gets updates and new features along the line that won't be possible to get
     
     - Do not DRM games updates. Fans can archive them. That more or less solves the entire problem
     - Mandatory remove DRM after end of game's service. Even some Switch games has DRM, and that means they might be unplayable after the service is down. Remove always online element, etc
     - For unique MMOs and other online game features: Update the game to allow connection to a misc server, and publish server tools so that fans can self host
     
     Can't think of anything else ATM, but 1 and 2 basically solves most issues currently
   • condret :verified: :ancom: :radare2:<|<| (condret@shitposter.club)'s status on Sunday, 23-Jul-2023 13:13:05 JST condret :verified: :ancom: :radare2:<|<|

     in reply to

     • cool_boy_mew
     @coolboymew i don't think it's overexagerated. games should work like books: you buy a book, read it and then decide if you want to keep or sell it on the used market. usually games don't work like this today, but they should.
     cool_boy_mew likes this.
   • cool_boy_mew (coolboymew@shitposter.club)'s status on Sunday, 23-Jul-2023 13:14:11 JST cool_boy_mew

     in reply to
     @condret No, I mean overexagerated in that fuckers uses it as a justification to go full digital "because cd/carts are this incomplete anyways" which is untrue in a lot of cases and absolutely retarded
   • PC-9801 Enjoyer (pawlicker@bae.st)'s status on Sunday, 23-Jul-2023 13:21:36 JST PC-9801 Enjoyer

     in reply to

     • cool_boy_mew
     @coolboymew @condret the 360 had no drm on updates btw
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   • cool_boy_mew (coolboymew@shitposter.club)'s status on Sunday, 23-Jul-2023 13:22:07 JST cool_boy_mew

     in reply to

     • PC-9801 Enjoyer
     @Pawlicker @condret That's actually interesting! I never actually checked if it's the case for other consoles
   • cool_boy_mew (coolboymew@shitposter.club)'s status on Sunday, 23-Jul-2023 13:23:21 JST cool_boy_mew

     in reply to

     • cool_boy_mew
     • PC-9801 Enjoyer
     @Pawlicker @condret Does that means there's a 360 games update repository somewhere?
     
     Altho', I figure it probably wasn't a massive problem that gen outside of a handful of games (Like that tony hawk game, IIRC) and most actual day 1 updates are online component that won't work today anyways
   • condret :verified: :ancom: :radare2:<|<| (condret@shitposter.club)'s status on Sunday, 23-Jul-2023 13:24:34 JST condret :verified: :ancom: :radare2:<|<|

     in reply to

     • cool_boy_mew
     • PC-9801 Enjoyer
     @Pawlicker @coolboymew because it's from a different era.
     cool_boy_mew likes this.
   • cool_boy_mew (coolboymew@shitposter.club)'s status on Sunday, 23-Jul-2023 14:02:21 JST cool_boy_mew

     in reply to
     @condret that could be a good idea
     
     I'd also add to require not shipping broken unplayable games to the list
   • condret :verified: :ancom: :radare2:<|<| (condret@shitposter.club)'s status on Sunday, 23-Jul-2023 14:02:22 JST condret :verified: :ancom: :radare2:<|<|

     in reply to

     • cool_boy_mew
     @coolboymew maybe we should start a petition on this
     Machismo repeated this.
   • condret :verified: :ancom: :radare2:<|<| (condret@shitposter.club)'s status on Sunday, 23-Jul-2023 14:13:18 JST condret :verified: :ancom: :radare2:<|<|

     in reply to

     • cool_boy_mew
     @coolboymew yeah, but i'm not sure if that could be precisely enough formulated for a legislation. i mean "what defines a broken game in front of a court". but we can definitly add it, because you get never all your demands
     cool_boy_mew likes this.
   • cool_boy_mew (coolboymew@shitposter.club)'s status on Sunday, 23-Jul-2023 14:19:20 JST cool_boy_mew

     in reply to
     @condret Basically, shipped game must be playable from start to finish and 100%
     
     Pretty much to make them actually QA this shit, but more importantly, not deliberately ship a broken game that's just fixed with an update
     
     It's overall moot if we do get our non-DRM updates we can archive somewhere, but releasing broken shit is still stupid
     
     You can definitively cite an environment issue. Nobody throws out video games, very much unlike VHS > DVD > BD made billions of movies bought in the last format be literally obsoletes. Even the shittiest of Snes shovelware is worth more money than VHS and DVD movies nowadays, no joke. So making sure that the game at least ships completely playable would assure that the discs/carts doesn't become useless coasters (and people being able to make archives and share game updates for years to come would really help with that)
   • cool_boy_mew (coolboymew@shitposter.club)'s status on Sunday, 23-Jul-2023 14:33:47 JST cool_boy_mew

     in reply to

     • cool_boy_mew
     @condret As for the digital problem, that's a massive fucking shitshow
     
     it's impossible to expect them to keep the servers alive for more than 10ish years. And even if they kept it for 50 years, it's still unreasonable to a certain extent to have your library be gone anytime within a lifetime, or hell, even more. My games and movies might still be functional once I'm old and dead, just books are, and digital purchases should be expected to follow the same rule
     
     The problem with them having a supported "marketplace" holding your licenses is that it becomes the same server issues and then legacy carrying everything, making emulators (which are not quite portable on a platform change, from Power PC to ARM to etc) and the emulator could be shitty and etc
     
     The thing about digital is that there's simply no better solution than: 0 DRM whatsoever, you purchase it, you own it, and you should be able to be able to download it from the manufacturer for years to come, and then when unsupported, be able to use it in customer made emulators, which would also mean a short copyright life for encryption keys (Basically, the recent Dolphin problem)
     
     That's the entire thing about digital purchases, it's like MP3s, the customer has full control or else it makes no sense whatsoever because all other solutions will have customer having their access heavily controlled and eventually disappearing, which we can run into all sort of issues here
   • cool_boy_mew (coolboymew@shitposter.club)'s status on Sunday, 23-Jul-2023 14:46:51 JST cool_boy_mew

     in reply to

     • cool_boy_mew
     @condret One big example of recent proprietary digital system really fucking over the customer: Smart home stuff. Smart Light Switches, light bulbs, etc. Best Buy and co suddenly decided that they didn't want to maintain the system anymore, so fuck you, all your shit stops working. This is inacceptable, and this is going to be the future state of digital purchases unless there's strong regulations that dictate that the customer can own and manage their own goddamn purchases. It HAS happened and will continue to happen
   • condret :verified: :ancom: :radare2:<|<| (condret@shitposter.club)'s status on Sunday, 23-Jul-2023 22:50:42 JST condret :verified: :ancom: :radare2:<|<|

     in reply to

     • cool_boy_mew
     • ロミンちゃん
     @romin @coolboymew do these laws mandate drm?
   • ロミンちゃん (romin@shitposter.club)'s status on Sunday, 23-Jul-2023 22:50:42 JST ロミンちゃん

     in reply to

     • cool_boy_mew
     @condret @coolboymew ultimately, DRM is just a tool to enforce licensing rights. Consumers allow DRM to exist in the first place, which is a separate issue altogether.
     cool_boy_mew likes this.
   • ロミンちゃん (romin@shitposter.club)'s status on Sunday, 23-Jul-2023 22:50:43 JST ロミンちゃん

     in reply to

     • cool_boy_mew
     @coolboymew @condret the underlying issue is copyright and IP laws, as long as they exist (they aren't going anywhere soon), there's no solution to this problem.
     cool_boy_mew likes this.
   • condret :verified: :ancom: :radare2:<|<| (condret@shitposter.club)'s status on Sunday, 23-Jul-2023 22:53:02 JST condret :verified: :ancom: :radare2:<|<|

     in reply to

     • cool_boy_mew
     @coolboymew well, not sure what you do for living, but i've done qa for a short while. it's effectivly impossible to get 100% coverage. though i agree games should be delivered in a decent state
     cool_boy_mew likes this.
   • cool_boy_mew (coolboymew@shitposter.club)'s status on Sunday, 23-Jul-2023 22:55:45 JST cool_boy_mew

     in reply to
     @condret well I'm not asking the to be totally bugless
     
     The issue being is that I know a place that is collecting information on what switch games comes complete. For the time being, any updates = incomplete (even if it just adds an italian localization, which nobody gives a fuck about) and it checks games from all regions, revisions, etc
     
     Some people also checks if games are 100% playable without patches, and unfortunately, a bunch of them has bug where the game freezes, making them not 100% playable, gating progress
     
     Of course, with archivable updates, this becomes less of an issue
   • mangeurdenuage (mangeurdenuage@shitposter.club)'s status on Sunday, 23-Jul-2023 22:55:50 JST mangeurdenuage

     in reply to

     • cool_boy_mew
     @coolboymew @condret Rember when CD/DVD were sold almost bugless because they'd get sued otherwise ? I rember.
     cool_boy_mew likes this.
   • mangeurdenuage (mangeurdenuage@shitposter.club)'s status on Sunday, 23-Jul-2023 22:55:53 JST mangeurdenuage

     in reply to

     • cool_boy_mew
     @coolboymew @condret
     Rember when amazon blocked the smarthome of a dude because of false accusations ?
     I rember https://tube.raccoon.quest/watch?v=NfiIXooD77s
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   • cool_boy_mew (coolboymew@shitposter.club)'s status on Sunday, 23-Jul-2023 23:22:25 JST cool_boy_mew

     in reply to
     @condret patches, after the game is released, is inevitable nowadays. And then you have Smash or the Xenoblade games which ends up having some sort of live service updates of sort. Which is why we really, really need updates archival
   • condret :verified: :ancom: :radare2:<|<| (condret@shitposter.club)'s status on Sunday, 23-Jul-2023 23:22:26 JST condret :verified: :ancom: :radare2:<|<|

     in reply to

     • cool_boy_mew
     @coolboymew what is your view on balancing patches?