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1. The Brown Note (csbhotsquad@noagendasocial.com)'s status on Saturday, 24-Jun-2023 12:22:02 JST The Brown Note

   There is no such thing as a transgender child.

   There are only victims of exploitation and objectification.

   • KitlerIs6" (kitleris6@seal.cafe)'s status on Saturday, 24-Jun-2023 12:21:57 JST KitlerIs6"

     in reply to

     • Jeff Cliff
     • BASTARD BEAST
     A person who is born with sexual characteristics from both genders is not a healthy male or a healthy female, they are something else. Giving them surgery to remove one set of characteristics so they appear more like a healthy member of the other gender is surgery to correct a birth defect.
     
     It is completely and totally different from surgery which takes a physically healthy child who is mentally unwell, and perverts their sex organs into a crude mockery of the opposite gender's sex organs.
     
     When someone says transgender child, they are talking about the second instance. Whether they are for or against such procedures, they mean the second. Bringing the first instance, which is a completely, entirely, altogether separate issue into discussion of the second because it bears a very, very superficial resemblance to the second is a bad faith argument made by proponents of the second procedure and people who fall for their dishonest tactics.
   • Jeff Cliff (jeffcliff@shitposter.club)'s status on Saturday, 24-Jun-2023 12:21:57 JST Jeff Cliff

     in reply to

     • BASTARD BEAST
     • KitlerIs6"
     > A person who is born with sexual characteristics from both genders is not a healthy male or a healthy female, they are something else
     
     So much for there being two genders.
     
     > Giving them surgery to remove one set of characteristics so they appear more like a healthy member of the other gender is surgery to correct a birth defect.
     
     agreed
     
     > It is completely and totally different from surgery which takes a physically healthy child who is mentally unwell, and perverts their sex organs into a crude mockery of the opposite gender's sex organs.
     
     agreed, though in practice the boundary between what you consider 'legitimate' and 'not legitimate' surgery is mostly due to the state of the art of surgery and not inherent in any of this.
     
     > When someone says transgender child, they are talking about the second instance
     
     That's not necessary, and there are people in this thread who would treat both the same, tossing both into the volcano as freaks.
     
     >. Whether they are for or against such procedures, they mean the second
     
     That is called "bad faith"
     
     >. Bringing the first instance, which is a completely, entirely, altogether separate issue
     
     No, it really is the same issue: being born into a body where you get signals from your body that are not what you are being socialized with/ that are not what your genetalia are.
     
     > a bad faith argument made by proponents of the second procedure
     
     That is not the argument being made here.
   • KitlerIs6" (kitleris6@seal.cafe)'s status on Saturday, 24-Jun-2023 12:21:58 JST KitlerIs6"

     in reply to

     • Jeff Cliff
     • BASTARD BEAST
     It's reality. Associating them with large scale child mutilation is inaccurate, and even more insulting to them. They have a birth defect, and need surgery to help them deal with that defect. That is something completely different from a mentally ill child being groomed to chop up their perfectly healthy body, and we shouldn't use the same term to describe them.
   • Jeff Cliff (jeffcliff@shitposter.club)'s status on Saturday, 24-Jun-2023 12:21:58 JST Jeff Cliff

     in reply to

     • BASTARD BEAST
     • KitlerIs6"
     > It's reality. Associating them with large scale child mutilation is inaccurate,
     
     OK you're the one talking about child mutilation here.
     
     > They have a birth defect, and need surgery to help them deal with that defect
     
     Now it seems like you're arguing for both sides here. What are you even saying
     
     >. That is something completely different from a mentally ill child being groomed to chop up their perfectly healthy body,
     
     agreed.
     
     > and we shouldn't use the same term to describe them.
     
     that's up to you. I will use the term to describe a boy transitioning to a girl or a girl transitioning to a boy, based on physical changes.
   • KitlerIs6" (kitleris6@seal.cafe)'s status on Saturday, 24-Jun-2023 12:21:59 JST KitlerIs6"

     in reply to

     • Jeff Cliff
     • BASTARD BEAST
     Jeff, 99.999% of people who say the word "transgender child" mean "healthy biological male who identifies as a female" or the reverse.
     
     No one means children with birth defects. No one except bad actors and people who fall for their distraction tactics.
   • Jeff Cliff (jeffcliff@shitposter.club)'s status on Saturday, 24-Jun-2023 12:21:59 JST Jeff Cliff

     in reply to

     • BASTARD BEAST
     • KitlerIs6"
     fine
     
     but that leaves 0.001% - which is ~80,000 people.
     
     you can view it as a birth defect if you want but that's a bit pejorative
   • Jeff Cliff (jeffcliff@shitposter.club)'s status on Saturday, 24-Jun-2023 12:22:00 JST Jeff Cliff

     in reply to

     • BASTARD BEAST
     > That's not the same because THERE IS NO TRANSITION
     
     unless they are born with a penis , or only one ovary and one testes
     in which case there kinda is
     
     > YOU DISINGENUOUS FUCK!
     
     There's nothing disingenuous about acknowledging reality.
     
     > transgender is not real because it's a state of transition between the two sexes
     
     If you're born a boy, and raised a boy, and then find out a you're actually a girl and need estrogen/surgery, what happens, then?
     
     > Crossdressing isn't a gender either
     
     of course not
     
     > evolutionarily corrupt
     
     Evolution does not care about any of this. It's evolutionary advantageous for sterile drones like me to be around, and it probably doesn't matter at all whether we are on T or estradiol. It doesn't happen often enough, really.
     
     > they are not as exemplar
     
     "exemplar" doesn't matter to any of this
     
     gender and sex turn out to be way more complicated than OP is making it out to be
   • KitlerIs6" (kitleris6@seal.cafe)'s status on Saturday, 24-Jun-2023 12:22:00 JST KitlerIs6"

     in reply to

     • Jeff Cliff
     • BASTARD BEAST
     "People with a rare genetic defect that adds abnormal features to their body is proof of the existence of a fake identity built around mentally ill people believing they can decide to be something they are not"
     
     Jeff, I mean this in the nicest way possible, but "intersex people are transgenders" is a trap to get midwits to defend something that doesn't make sense by distracting them with technicalities so they miss the overall picture.
   • Jeff Cliff (jeffcliff@shitposter.club)'s status on Saturday, 24-Jun-2023 12:22:00 JST Jeff Cliff

     in reply to

     • BASTARD BEAST
     • KitlerIs6"
     > "People with a rare genetic defect that adds abnormal features to their body is proof of the existence of a fake identity
     
     No. You're the one talking about a fake identity. OP is talking about a whole class of people who clearly exist, not existing.
     
     > mentally ill people believing they can decide to be something they are not"
     
     That's a different issue. It is an issue.
     
     > Jeff, I mean this in the nicest way possible, but "intersex people are transgenders" is a trap to get midwits to defend something that doesn't make sense by distracting them with technicalities so they miss the overall picture.
     
     The overall picture involves details. Intersex is a modern concept that is probably not going to stick, just like most of how we think about gender, as gene expression and epigenetics tells us more and more about how our bodies work.
     
     And we aren't going to get very far if we ignore reality that there are kids born that any rational observer is going to call trans.
   • Jeff Cliff (jeffcliff@shitposter.club)'s status on Saturday, 24-Jun-2023 12:22:01 JST Jeff Cliff

     in reply to
     Wrong and ignorant. There are children born with ovaries but who are male presenting otherwise.
   • BASTARD BEAST (schizocynic@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 24-Jun-2023 12:22:01 JST BASTARD BEAST

     in reply to

     • Jeff Cliff
     @jeffcliff @CSBHOTSQUAD Freaks of nature you mean. That's not the same because THERE IS NO TRANSITION YOU DISINGENUOUS FUCK! transgender is not real because it's a state of transition between the two sexes and not a state of limbo. Crossdressing isn't a gender either before you to claim a fetish is a gender. Siamese twins, bearded women, and pinheads such as yourself used to be in sideshows because of how unnatural and evolutionarily corrupt they are not as exemplars.
   • KitlerIs6" (kitleris6@seal.cafe)'s status on Saturday, 24-Jun-2023 12:22:35 JST KitlerIs6"

     in reply to

     • Jeff Cliff
     • BASTARD BEAST
     >So much for there being two genders.
     Another midwit trap. There are two human sexes. At the end of the day intersex people are still xx or xy, they just have defects that make them extremely abnormal instances of those sexes, which is why they need surgery.
     
     Or do you think human beings as a species have more than 2 arms and 5 fingers because of some ultra rare defects too? Jeff I'm trying to be nice but it feels like you are either acting in really bad faith or just have a really weak understanding of the world while thinking you know more than everyone else.
     
     >That's not necessary, and there are people in this thread who would treat both the same, tossing both into the volcano as freaks.
     Aside from shitposters I don't think anyone actually wants to harm either intersex or transgender children. Most people just want to protect the latter from being irreparably harmed. They would also be ok with treating the condition of the former if you phrased in in a way that did not make them think you wanted to harm the latter.
     
     >No, it really is the same issue: being born into a body where you get signals from your body that are not what you are being socialized with/ that are not what your genetalia are.
     Are you in favor of providing children who are born as healthy, typical males or females with surgery or other forms of medical "care" that allows them to live as the opposite gender?
   • white_male (white_male@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 24-Jun-2023 12:22:38 JST white_male

     in reply to

     • Jeff Cliff
     • BASTARD BEAST
     • KitlerIs6"
     @KitlerIs6 @jeffcliff @CSBHOTSQUAD @SchizoCynic Jeff lives in troon central and has warped view on reality.
     That's a comment to his bad faith.
     Troons 41% all around him, but instead of celebrating he wallows in pity.
   • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Saturday, 24-Jun-2023 19:40:12 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

     in reply to

     • Jeff Cliff
     • BASTARD BEAST
     @jeffcliff @SchizoCynic @CSBHOTSQUAD evolution "cares" about fitness to reproduce. Infertility is a dead end. You chose to prune your genes out, but people with defects that make them infertile aren't a more advanced being, they are a dead end. The only "evolutionary advantage" is a cleaner gene pool.
   • Matty-kun :Christmas_kitty_bell: (matty@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Saturday, 24-Jun-2023 19:41:02 JST Matty-kun :Christmas_kitty_bell:

     in reply to

     • Jeff Cliff
     • BASTARD BEAST
     • KitlerIs6"
     Jeff you are the dumbest gorilla nigger in the world if you're trolling 10/10
     Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: likes this.