@ArdainianRight It's true though. Why do nations have border disputes? Why are some nations recognized while others aren't or are partially recognized? They have no objective basis in reality.
@echo@ArdainianRight Property does have an objective basis in reality. It can be explained using logic. Doing labor on unclaimed property automatically makes it yours. This can all be explained objectively.
Nations on the other hand, exist because someone claimed that they exist. This is why we have border disputes and unrecognized nations.
@xianc78@ArdainianRight Property lines only exist in your head and I'm gonna park my car and boat in your front yard, I'm assuming you'll be okay with that.
@ArdainianRight Japan has multiple native ethnic groups: Ainu, Ōbeikei, Yamato, and Ryukyuans. Each one of them can theoretically call themselves a "nation". Culture is nothing more than a lifestyle, and I don't know why language is something to be proud of.
@TheMadPirate@ArdainianRight It's not a culture. It's just the logical conclusion that aggression is unjustified outside of self defense, and logic is ALWAYS objective.
@xianc78@ArdainianRight So, how do you keep a Culture of Freedom exercised by a certain population on a given region if you let people who don't follow such Culture come and go as they please from that region ?
@xianc78@ArdainianRight Funny how are you willful y trying to avoid both the paradox of freedom and the paradox of tolerance at the same time by totally rejecting that societies have cultures.
@xianc78@ArdainianRight@Arkana Is via voluntary association that Cultures first and Nations later are formed. Now, you are using a misleading there, you are using Nation : "A set of common values and culture shared by a group of people living in a common region" as a synonym of Nation-State : "a sovereign state of which most of the citizens or subjects are united also by factors which define a nation, such as language or common descent.". They are not the same, but you are trying to conflate the two ( in fact, Ardanian never mentioned the word State in the first place).
You can have a Nation without a State without any problems, for example, the case of the Diasporic Jews is a good example of a Nation without a State.
@TheMadPirate@xianc78@Arkana A Hoppean private society would more or less wind up being a micronation. Micronations, city-states, etc. have their own organic cultures and identities too.
@TheMadPirate@ArdainianRight@Arkana It's still arbitrary. Like I said previously, there are multiple native ethnicities in Japan. They can identify as one of those instead of identifying as "Japanese". How genetically far apart does someone have to be for them to be considered an outsider? How culturally different do they have to be to be considered an outsider?
@OldM8@TheMadPirate@Arkana@xianc78 I have obligations to my family and to my people. I do not have obligations to the occupation government or its spiteful mutant minions.
@xianc78@OldM8@TheMadPirate@Arkana You're an ungrateful faggot if you don't at least have some appreciation and respect for the struggles of your forebears. You didn't magically pop into this world on your own.
@Arkana@ArdainianRight@TheMadPirate True. And it's within my own interest not to be disowned by my family because they will support me if I support them.
But I have no obligation for my nation. Which is why I refused to serve in the military.
@xianc78@TheMadPirate@ArdainianRight You don't only need just one identity. You can identify as a European, an American, and white simultaneously. Being a citizen of a country is not the same as being ethnically of its majority nationality.
You do not get to decide what family you are born into. That is intrinsically part of your identity. You can lose that status by being disowned, or willingly cut yourself off from your family, but it does not change your genetics.
@xianc78@ChristiJunior What about lolbertarianism is natural? If your land doesn't produce enough food to support you, while your neighbor's produces a surplus, it's not "natural" to willingly starve to death out of respect for private property, it's natural to fight to take by force what you need to sustain yourself, and either succeed and live, or lose and die out.
@ArdainianRight@ChristiJunior In those cases (which should be extreme and unlikely), yes go steal food. The NAP isn't perfect, but I do think it is a general framework that people should follow.
Personally, if I see my neighbor starving, then I will be happy to give them food.
@Arkana@OldM8@ArdainianRight@TheMadPirate How genetically far apart do two people have to be to be considered separate races? This is a serious question that needs to be answered.
I'm probably the most open-minded and free-thinking person you'll ever meet. I'm open to anything no matter how "politically incorrect" it is. But I have yet to hear any "race-realist" answer this question.
@xianc78@ChristiJunior In a pre-industrial Malthusian state of affairs that basically was the norm everywhere to varying extents. And very frequently people have not exactly been friendly or generous to those outside of their tribe or clan. It's great if we can have a society that more or less operates without aggression, but that has never been the historical norm for a reason.
@xianc78@Arkana@OldM8@TheMadPirate What is a hill? Where do hills end and mountains begin? There isn't a clear or objective dividing line. This pops up with any number of concepts, where the boundaries are inherently fuzzy. This does not invalidate the usefulness of such concepts, even if there's no perfect or objective way to categorize the different clusters. The big racial bottleneck is the descendants of the Out-of-Africa migrations vs. Subsaharan Africans, but there are many other splits and possible categorizations.
@xianc78@OldM8@ArdainianRight@TheMadPirate It depends. Some people believe there are 8 main races, some say only 3 or 4. It's up to your own discretion where the lines are drawn.
@Arkana@OldM8@ArdainianRight@xianc78 "Race isn't real" is the most lame argument I've ever seen. There are multiple phenotipical difference between different races, from skull shape to hormonal balances. Race is real, deal with it.
@OldM8@TheMadPirate@Arkana@xianc78 Existence being intertwined with essence doesn't require reference to anything outside of sensory perception. Our genetics and environment which dictate our "essence" can only exist simultaneously to our existence.
@ArdainianRight Even if there was a mind-independent world of perfect forms beyond our sensory perception, how do we have any access to it beyond empirical means??
@ArdainianRight@OldM8@TheMadPirate@Arkana I can't speak for OldM8, but I do. But I don't like the whole "family honor" thing that a lot of eastern cultures have. I'm not morally obligated to do the same job that my parents did.
@xianc78@OldM8@TheMadPirate@Arkana It can definitely be taken too far. I don't think it should dictate everything the child does with his life, moreso that whatever he does do, he's obligated to do it to the fullest out of respect for those who came before you. Mostly I hate Reddit "I never asked to be born" bullshit, considering just how much loving parents sacrifice for their children.
"The human religion is only the final metamorphosis of the Christian religion. Because liberalism is a religion since it separates my essence from me and sets it above me, since it exalts “humanity” to the same extent that some other religion would its God or idol, since it makes what is mine other-worldly, since it generally makes out of what is mine, out of my qualities and my property, something alien, namely an “essence”; in short, since it places me beneath the human and thereby creates a calling for me. But liberalism also declares itself a religion in form when it demands for this highest essence, humanity, a religious zeal, “a faith that will finally also prove its fiery zeal, a zeal that will be invincible.”[190] Since liberalism is a human religion, those who profess it act with tolerance toward those who profess another (Catholic, Jewish, etc.), as Frederick the Great did toward anyone who performed his duties as a subject, whatever fashion of being blessed he might prefer. This religion is now to be elevated to the universal, commonly used one, and be separated from the others as mere “private follies,” toward which, by the way, one acts very liberally because they are so insignificant. " The Unique and Its Property, pg 189
Glad to see pride month has helped all the faggots out of the closet.
You’re an idiot. The very fact that you’re whining about nationalism proves the dichotomy of globalism versus nationalism. Why can’t you meddlers just leave people alone?
@xianc78@Owl Within the current political environment nationalism and localism are more or less on the same side, but in other environments nationalism might be a unifying force that suppresses local, regional, and tribal identities to empower itself. I'm probably more partial to localism compared to nationalism, at least insofar as it's sustainable within the political and economic environment, but those differences can be worked out once globalism is no longer the overriding threat.
@shedinja@ArdainianRight That piece of paper that you call the constitution doesn't give me any rights that I don't already have. Rights only exist within a negative context.
@shedinja@xianc78@ArdainianRight you know this nigga is faking the funk because he got the Ō in Ōbeikei literally just copy-pasted from Wikipedia, doesn't actually know shit about shit
@xianc78@shedinja The longstanding relatively pro-free speech cultural norms in America have been a more reliable check against government censorship than a piece of paper or any court ever was. Same applies to gun culture, though both of course have been imperfect. Both are endangered because of the disintegration of traditional American culture and the historical American nation.
@xianc78@ArdainianRight >genetics are a spook bro, but what's real is my purely ideological drivel about The Market™ that keeps getting proven wrong as time goes on
@gucciloafers@ArdainianRight I never said that genetics aren't real. I'm saying that what defines a race is completely arbitrary. Some people say that there are only 4 races, some say that their 8. We don't have an exact threshold of genetic differences to determine if someone is considered to be a different race.
@Tadano@ArdainianRight I'm actually mixed race. China also has different native ethnic groups (thous I have no idea where my Asian side of my family came from). It's still completely arbitrary.
@xianc78@ArdainianRight Given you explicitly refer to yourself as Chinese (i.e. a nation) I know you don't actually believe this nonsense yourself deep down. Peoples with shared ancestry, culture, language and history are clearly observable in daily life and this phenomenon is natural in origin.
Furthermore God explicitly created the nations of man (Genesis 11) and the new testament reiterates this in Acts 17:26-27.
@ArdainianRight I recently watched My Dress Up Darling, and the main character Wakana is wonderfully Japanese. He wears traditional clothes, eats traditional food, lives in a traditional house, and practices a traditional art. And when his far more westernized love interest takes him to try and find a new outfit, he refuses all the western clothes she dresses him in; eventually buying himself a different, but still very much Japanese outfit. He's not in any way presented as weird for doing this. I also like that he doesn't do any of this expressly to be Japanese, but beaus that's how he was raised and that's how he is comfortable. It makes me truly sad to see so many nations basically becoming US light, both becasue it destroys their traditions and weakens what it means to be American. I believe this is one of the reasons that America has no unified identity. We can go nearly anywhere in the world and find people who dress like us, speak our language, watch our movies, and hold (some of) our values. Though for that last one they're often corrupted or it's actually globo-homo values they hold, either way it's homely and not foreign.