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Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 03-May-2023 12:17:45 JST Moon

what if we determined the environmental impact of power usage and assigned a tax for all usage that proportionally matched the cost of addressing that impact and applied it toward addressing that impact

In conversation Wednesday, 03-May-2023 12:17:45 JST from shitposter.club permalink
- xianc78@gameliberty.club's status on Wednesday, 03-May-2023 12:17:44 JST xianc78
  in reply to
  
  @Moon Go away Klaus Schwab.
  
  In conversation Wednesday, 03-May-2023 12:17:44 JST permalink
  
  Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: likes this.
- Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 03-May-2023 12:31:15 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
  in reply to
  
  @Moon I think use of plastics and chemicals is probably worse than using power.
  
  In conversation Wednesday, 03-May-2023 12:31:15 JST permalink
- Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 03-May-2023 12:37:15 JST Moon
  in reply to
  - Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
  @thatguyoverthere production of anything that can't be recycled (almost everything) rarely has the real cost factored in
  
  In conversation Wednesday, 03-May-2023 12:37:15 JST permalink
  
  Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: likes this.
- Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 03-May-2023 12:37:15 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
  in reply to
  
  @Moon I think the full cost is hard to ascertain because there are ways to reuse things but stuff is mostly just chucked in a trashcan. Also I think fixing our farming and food distribution is more important than fixing our energy usage. Sadly the decision makers want to fix farming too but in a different way.
  
  In conversation Wednesday, 03-May-2023 12:37:15 JST permalink
- Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 03-May-2023 12:38:37 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
  in reply to
  
  @Moon the market may not adjust itself fast enough at times but I trust it better than government solutions generally.
  
  In conversation Wednesday, 03-May-2023 12:38:37 JST permalink
- Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 03-May-2023 12:38:38 JST Moon
  in reply to
  - Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
  @thatguyoverthere I iknow also there's an argument here about cost being assigned by the market but I don't believe the market is sufficient, never have.
  
  In conversation Wednesday, 03-May-2023 12:38:38 JST permalink
- Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 03-May-2023 12:49:19 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
  in reply to
  - Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
  @Moon also the current market is distorted by insane inflation and entirely driven by debt instead of value.
  
  I actually think most of our problems are the result of trying to build monolithic highly integrated systems instead of decentralized systems that utilize local resources more which could reduce waste. I don't believe man made carbon is a driving factor for climate change, and I think targeting it is a distraction form more harmful practices that big companies would like to continue. I think pesticides and overuse of fertilizer are way more serious issues that are causing physiological and possibly even psychological damage to all life. I think we justify their usage by saying we grow more food, but then we let tons and tons of food rot every year. Does the surplus growth matter if we can't even get it where it needs to go?
  
  In conversation Wednesday, 03-May-2023 12:49:19 JST permalink
- Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 03-May-2023 13:04:47 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
  in reply to
  - iceloops.eth 🚬 :love_forever_cat:
  @1iceloops123 @Moon one problem is most people think solar and wind are the only way to go, but neither of these are environmentally friendly if you consider the material extraction costs, and both require batteries to smooth out low points. If technologies like biodiesel, wood gassification, and biodigesters were offered as solutions people could produce energy closer to where it's used using existing equipment.
  
  In conversation Wednesday, 03-May-2023 13:04:47 JST permalink
- iceloops.eth 🚬 :love_forever_cat: (1iceloops123@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 03-May-2023 13:04:48 JST iceloops.eth 🚬 :love_forever_cat:
  in reply to
  
  @Moon I think maybe try to encourage people who own houses etc and can afford it, to invest in clean energy atleast help to produce it.
  
  In conversation Wednesday, 03-May-2023 13:04:48 JST permalink
  
  Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: likes this.
- Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 03-May-2023 13:06:48 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
  in reply to
  - Jeff Cliff
  - verified neko :verified::verified::verified::makemeneko:
  @roboneko @Moon @jeffcliff don't the taxes just repay some debt. Adding a carbon tax doesn't change the budgetary capabilities of legislators since they just go borrow the money anyway. All it does is punish people who can't wash their carbon usage
  
  In conversation Wednesday, 03-May-2023 13:06:48 JST permalink
- Jeff Cliff (jeffcliff@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 03-May-2023 13:06:49 JST Jeff Cliff
  in reply to
  
  so, a carbon tax
  
  In conversation Wednesday, 03-May-2023 13:06:49 JST permalink
- verified neko :verified::verified::verified::makemeneko: (roboneko@bae.st)'s status on Wednesday, 03-May-2023 13:06:49 JST verified neko :verified::verified::verified::makemeneko:
  in reply to
  - Jeff Cliff
  @jeffcliff @Moon nah a carbon tax is limited to carbon and doesn't necessarily get allocated to fixing anything. in the simplest form it only exists to disincentivize the release of carbon that was trapped in the ground
  
  an environmental externality tax that could only be spent on efforts to remediate those externalities would be a different beast
  
  In conversation Wednesday, 03-May-2023 13:06:49 JST permalink
- Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 03-May-2023 13:11:15 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
  in reply to
  - Jeff Cliff
  - verified neko :verified::verified::verified::makemeneko:
  @jeffcliff @roboneko @Moon you are saying Canada actually only spends money collected as taxes? We are much more carefree down here. Our budget creates new debt and our taxes pay old debt
  
  In conversation Wednesday, 03-May-2023 13:11:15 JST permalink
- Jeff Cliff (jeffcliff@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 03-May-2023 13:11:16 JST Jeff Cliff
  in reply to
  - verified neko :verified::verified::verified::makemeneko:
  - Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
  > don't the taxes just repay some debt
  
  if only
  
  > All it does is punish people who can't wash their carbon usage
  
  ...and reward those who do. the carbon credit here basically paid most of my power bill for the year.
  
  In conversation Wednesday, 03-May-2023 13:11:16 JST permalink
- verified neko :verified::verified::verified::makemeneko: (roboneko@bae.st)'s status on Wednesday, 03-May-2023 13:12:24 JST verified neko :verified::verified::verified::makemeneko:
  in reply to
  - Jeff Cliff
  - Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
  @thatguyoverthere @Moon @jeffcliff
  
  > do taxes actually change the budget under a regime that prints arbitrary amounts of money
  
  a fair question
  
  > All it does is punish people who can't wash their carbon usage
  
  it intentionally distorts the market to disincentivize some class of behaviors. that part definitely works as intended
  
  but yes, such taxes generally disproportionately impact the people at the bottom
  
  In conversation Wednesday, 03-May-2023 13:12:24 JST permalink
  
  Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: likes this.
- Jeff Cliff (jeffcliff@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 03-May-2023 13:14:33 JST Jeff Cliff
  in reply to
  - verified neko :verified::verified::verified::makemeneko:
  - Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
  canada doesn't have a single system. It has a different system for every province
  
  but one thing saskatchewan doesn't really do with its carbon tax: pay down its debt
  
  they tend to just spend and spend and spend ,. and get more and more and more debt in the same way
  
  In conversation Wednesday, 03-May-2023 13:14:33 JST permalink
  
  Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: likes this.
- sj_zero (sj_zero@social.fbxl.net)'s status on Wednesday, 03-May-2023 13:16:43 JST sj_zero
  in reply to
  "It's great! I have no money because everything I need to live is more expensive, but 3 times a year they send me money I needed 365 times a year!"
  
  In conversation Wednesday, 03-May-2023 13:16:43 JST permalink
  
  Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: likes this.
- Jeff Cliff (jeffcliff@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 03-May-2023 13:16:44 JST Jeff Cliff
  in reply to
  - verified neko :verified::verified::verified::makemeneko:
  - Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
  > but yes, such taxes generally disproportionately impact the people at the bottom
  
  which is why we have a carbon credit for such people
  
  In conversation Wednesday, 03-May-2023 13:16:44 JST permalink
- Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 03-May-2023 13:19:12 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
  in reply to
  @jeffcliff @condret @Moon @roboneko that's why I say end the fed. I don't want government borrowing for everything they want to spend money on, but if they are going to do that and make it impossible to repay I don't see any reason to beg for them to take more from me.
  
  In conversation Wednesday, 03-May-2023 13:19:12 JST permalink
- condret :verified: :ancom: :radare2:<|<| (condret@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 03-May-2023 13:19:13 JST condret :verified: :ancom: :radare2:<|<|
  in reply to
  @jeffcliff @thatguyoverthere @Moon @roboneko i think this is fine actually. it's not like state debts are a real problem as long as they are debts in their own currency.
  
  In conversation Wednesday, 03-May-2023 13:19:13 JST permalink
- Jeff Cliff (jeffcliff@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 03-May-2023 13:19:13 JST Jeff Cliff
  in reply to
  you can live somewhere that gets into debt and puts future generations into bondage, i'd rather people here to have no carried debt, not at the municipal, provincial or federal level with only emergencies as exceptions
  
  In conversation Wednesday, 03-May-2023 13:19:13 JST permalink
- verified neko :verified::verified::verified::makemeneko: (roboneko@bae.st)'s status on Wednesday, 03-May-2023 13:21:01 JST verified neko :verified::verified::verified::makemeneko:
  in reply to
  @jeffcliff @Moon @condret @thatguyoverthere
  
  > puts future generations into bondage
  
  becomes a bit adversarial when you consider freedom of movement. if everyone leaves and then the place defaults on the debt ...
  
  In conversation Wednesday, 03-May-2023 13:21:01 JST permalink
  
  Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: likes this.
- verified neko :verified::verified::verified::makemeneko: (roboneko@bae.st)'s status on Wednesday, 03-May-2023 13:22:35 JST verified neko :verified::verified::verified::makemeneko:
  in reply to
  @thatguyoverthere @Moon @condret @jeffcliff officially taxing via inflation. what could go wrong? lmao
  
  In conversation Wednesday, 03-May-2023 13:22:35 JST permalink
  
  Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: likes this.
- Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 03-May-2023 13:22:35 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
  in reply to
  @roboneko @Moon @condret @jeffcliff they're doing that now. Every time they expand the money supply savings are diminished.
  
  In conversation Wednesday, 03-May-2023 13:22:35 JST permalink
- Jeff Cliff (jeffcliff@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 03-May-2023 13:22:44 JST Jeff Cliff
  in reply to
  this is a good point
  
  ie debt is a mechanism to take people off the land of their ancestors
  
  In conversation Wednesday, 03-May-2023 13:22:44 JST permalink
  
  Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: likes this.
- Pete Zaitcev (zaitcev@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 03-May-2023 13:40:42 JST Pete Zaitcev
  in reply to
  - xianc78
  @xianc78 @Moon I was in bookstore a few days ago, and there was a guy there reading The 4th Industrial Revolution by Klaus Schwab and making highlights with intensity. My daughter saw it and said, "do you think he bought that book (or just picked it from the shelf)?" Indeed he didn't look like a guy who returns his shopping carts, but I didn't want to be judgemental with no basis.
  
  In conversation Wednesday, 03-May-2023 13:40:42 JST permalink
  
  xianc78 likes this.
- condret :verified: :ancom: :radare2:<|<| (condret@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 03-May-2023 19:20:20 JST condret :verified: :ancom: :radare2:<|<|
  in reply to
  @thatguyoverthere @jeffcliff @Moon @roboneko what you advicate for is deflationary shithole economics
  
  In conversation Wednesday, 03-May-2023 19:20:20 JST permalink
- Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 03-May-2023 19:20:20 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
  in reply to
  @condret @Moon @jeffcliff @roboneko all I advocate for is spending within your means and limiting government to do the same.
  
  In conversation Wednesday, 03-May-2023 19:20:20 JST permalink
- condret :verified: :ancom: :radare2:<|<| (condret@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 03-May-2023 19:22:14 JST condret :verified: :ancom: :radare2:<|<|
  in reply to
  @roboneko @Moon @jeffcliff @thatguyoverthere a little bit of inflation is good actually
  
  In conversation Wednesday, 03-May-2023 19:22:14 JST permalink
- Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 03-May-2023 19:22:14 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
  in reply to
  @condret @roboneko @Moon @jeffcliff > a little of this cyanide is good akshually
  
  In conversation Wednesday, 03-May-2023 19:22:14 JST permalink
- condret :verified: :ancom: :radare2:<|<| (condret@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 03-May-2023 19:24:25 JST condret :verified: :ancom: :radare2:<|<|
  in reply to
  @jeffcliff @Moon @roboneko @thatguyoverthere what happens? is the central bank calling the cops to get the money back?
  
  In conversation Wednesday, 03-May-2023 19:24:25 JST permalink
- condret :verified: :ancom: :radare2:<|<| (condret@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 03-May-2023 19:24:26 JST condret :verified: :ancom: :radare2:<|<|
  in reply to
  @jeffcliff @Moon @roboneko @thatguyoverthere then don't do spending down the debt. as long as you keep the debts in your own currency nothing is going to happen
  
  In conversation Wednesday, 03-May-2023 19:24:26 JST permalink
- Jeff Cliff (jeffcliff@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 03-May-2023 19:24:26 JST Jeff Cliff
  in reply to
  except things *do* happen
  we pay interest on that debt, every year
  
  even in drought years, where we really can't afford to
  
  In conversation Wednesday, 03-May-2023 19:24:26 JST permalink
- condret :verified: :ancom: :radare2:<|<| (condret@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 03-May-2023 19:24:27 JST condret :verified: :ancom: :radare2:<|<|
  in reply to
  @jeffcliff @Moon @roboneko @thatguyoverthere no, this does not put future generations into bondage. Where do you think this money ultimately comes from? It always comes from the central bank, there is nothing the central bank could do to get the money back, as the central bank is owned by the state.
  
  In conversation Wednesday, 03-May-2023 19:24:27 JST permalink
- Jeff Cliff (jeffcliff@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 03-May-2023 19:24:27 JST Jeff Cliff
  in reply to
  it's putting *current* generations into bondage
  
  this is not a hypothetical
  
  there was a whole generation lost in the 90s here, because we spent the decade paying down the debt of the previous governments, just as we had to do in thew 50s
  
  the federal central bank doesn't care about the provinces, here anyway
  
  but even at the federal level: we are still giving up canadian women to 3rd world dictators because, among other things, we've beggared ourselves via debt
  
  In conversation Wednesday, 03-May-2023 19:24:27 JST permalink
- verified neko :verified::verified::verified::makemeneko: (roboneko@bae.st)'s status on Wednesday, 03-May-2023 19:24:59 JST verified neko :verified::verified::verified::makemeneko:
  in reply to
  @condret @Moon @jeffcliff @thatguyoverthere
  
  > the total amount of debt needs to increase as the economy grows in order to prevent a deflation
  
  deflation is only really bad if it spirals. inflation can get out of control too. I think the bigger issue is that it incentivizes holding on to cash. a low level of inflation provides a certain set of incentives that are convenient if you want to maximize GDP at all costs
  
  In conversation Wednesday, 03-May-2023 19:24:59 JST permalink
  
  Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: likes this.
- Jeff Cliff (jeffcliff@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 03-May-2023 19:25:00 JST Jeff Cliff
  in reply to
  The central money isn't the one lending the money.
  
  What happens is the financial system cuts you from access to it, and other lenders stop lending the government anything. Just like they did in the 50s here. Or they just seize your governments (or citizens) property. Eventually, they'll start just seizing citizens.
  
  In conversation Wednesday, 03-May-2023 19:25:00 JST permalink
- condret :verified: :ancom: :radare2:<|<| (condret@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 03-May-2023 19:25:00 JST condret :verified: :ancom: :radare2:<|<|
  in reply to
  @jeffcliff @Moon @roboneko @thatguyoverthere you cannot just simply seize the government's property, the state has the monopoly on power, neither can the financial cut the government off. And why would they? Every banker/economist understands that in modern capitalism the total amount of debt needs to increase as the economy grows in order to prevent a deflation. It's quite convenient if the governement creates most of these debts, as the government will always pay back to private lenders.
  Meanwhile it is true, that the central bank in most countries does not lend money to the government directly, all money originally comes from the central bank. Usually there are 1 or 2 intermediary banks involved in the process, but in the end all of the money comes from the central bank. Central banks have the exclusive right to print money.
  
  I'm not sure, if we could compare the 50s with today's fiat money system, given that bretton woods agreement active back then
  
  In conversation Wednesday, 03-May-2023 19:25:00 JST permalink
- verified neko :verified::verified::verified::makemeneko: (roboneko@bae.st)'s status on Wednesday, 03-May-2023 19:25:07 JST verified neko :verified::verified::verified::makemeneko:
  in reply to
  @jeffcliff @Moon @condret @thatguyoverthere I think this thread is confusing bonds sold to private parties with "debt" that exists purely on paper due to money being printed. the feds don't *have* to owe anyone interest if the legislature doesn't want them to
  
  the obvious issue with printing "too much" money is excessive inflation. what constitutes "too much" is open to interpretation but I think most would agree that we're well past anything that might resemble it
  
  In conversation Wednesday, 03-May-2023 19:25:07 JST permalink
- verified neko :verified::verified::verified::makemeneko: (roboneko@bae.st)'s status on Wednesday, 03-May-2023 19:26:06 JST verified neko :verified::verified::verified::makemeneko:
  in reply to
  @condret @Moon @jeffcliff @thatguyoverthere
  
  > It might create a last-man-standing situation, where everybody lives in poverty except a very few rich ones.
  
  if we're talking about fiat, if and when that actually happens just print yourself out of that hole. but I'm not sure it's a significantly different failure mode than the ultrawealthy lending out and collecting rent. at the end of the day value within society is ultimately relative
  
  In conversation Wednesday, 03-May-2023 19:26:06 JST permalink
  
  Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: likes this.
- condret :verified: :ancom: :radare2:<|<| (condret@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 03-May-2023 19:26:07 JST condret :verified: :ancom: :radare2:<|<|
  in reply to
  @roboneko @Moon @jeffcliff @thatguyoverthere yes, i agree. I think deflation getting out of hand is worse than inflation, because i believe the accumulation incentives that you've mentioned to be more destructive. It might create a last-man-standing situation, where everybody lives in poverty except a very few rich ones. (this is why i dislike cryptocurrencies, i see high deflationary potential in them)
  
  In conversation Wednesday, 03-May-2023 19:26:07 JST permalink
- condret :verified: :ancom: :radare2:<|<| (condret@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 03-May-2023 20:39:31 JST condret :verified: :ancom: :radare2:<|<|
  in reply to
  @thatguyoverthere @Moon @jeffcliff @roboneko government spending doesn't work the same way as private household spending does
  
  In conversation Wednesday, 03-May-2023 20:39:31 JST permalink
- Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 03-May-2023 20:39:31 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
  in reply to
  @condret @Moon @jeffcliff @roboneko I know it's entirely unchained from reality. That's a problem
  
  In conversation Wednesday, 03-May-2023 20:39:31 JST permalink
- Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 03-May-2023 21:42:55 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
  in reply to
  @condret @Moon @jeffcliff @roboneko
  https://mises.org/power-market/mmt-not-modern-not-monetary-not-theory
  
  > The promise of something for nothing will never lose its luster. MMT should be viewed as a form of political propaganda rather than any kind of real economics or public policy. And like all propaganda, it must be fought with appeals to reality. MMT, where deficits don't matter, is an unreal place.
  
  Uh... Learn yoself on Austrian economics?
  In conversation Wednesday, 03-May-2023 21:42:55 JST permalink
  Attachments
  1. MMT: Not Modern, Not Monetary, Not a Theory | Jeff Deist
    
    Listen to the Audio Mises Wire version of this article. Modern monetary theory (MMT) has a new champion, and a new bible. Stephanie Kelton, economics professor at SUNY Stony Brook, is the author of The Deficit Myth: Modern Monetary Theory and the Birth of the People's Economy. Professor Kelton was an advisor to the Bernie Sanders presidential campaigns, and her ideas increasingly find purchase with left progressives.
- condret :verified: :ancom: :radare2:<|<| (condret@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 03-May-2023 21:42:56 JST condret :verified: :ancom: :radare2:<|<|
  in reply to
  @thatguyoverthere @Moon @jeffcliff @roboneko please inform yourself about mmt
  
  In conversation Wednesday, 03-May-2023 21:42:56 JST permalink
  
  Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: likes this.
- Jeff Cliff (jeffcliff@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 03-May-2023 23:48:05 JST Jeff Cliff
  in reply to
  yeah : most households don't have people from the big banks continually undermining their ability to make decisions through bribery and "techno experts"
  
  In conversation Wednesday, 03-May-2023 23:48:05 JST permalink
- Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 03-May-2023 23:48:05 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
  in reply to
  @jeffcliff @condret @Moon @roboneko don't we though? I mean maybe it goes the long way around, but we are affected when government makes decisions that are affected by bribery and "techno experts" as you say.
  
  In conversation Wednesday, 03-May-2023 23:48:05 JST permalink
- Jeff Cliff (jeffcliff@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 03-May-2023 23:48:09 JST Jeff Cliff
  in reply to
  Sorry we do not share your MMT religion
  
  In conversation Wednesday, 03-May-2023 23:48:09 JST permalink
  
  Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: likes this.
- Jeff Cliff (jeffcliff@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 04-May-2023 00:01:27 JST Jeff Cliff
  in reply to
  No.
  
  I'm another option.
  
  In conversation Thursday, 04-May-2023 00:01:27 JST permalink
- Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 04-May-2023 00:01:27 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
  in reply to
  @jeffcliff @condret @Moon @roboneko > not complying with binary protocols
  
  shame on you
  
  In conversation Thursday, 04-May-2023 00:01:27 JST permalink
- condret :verified: :ancom: :radare2:<|<| (condret@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 04-May-2023 00:01:28 JST condret :verified: :ancom: :radare2:<|<|
  in reply to
  @jeffcliff @thatguyoverthere @Moon @roboneko so you follow the hayek death cult?
  
  In conversation Thursday, 04-May-2023 00:01:28 JST permalink
- gol_d_berg (gol_d_berg@poa.st)'s status on Thursday, 04-May-2023 00:07:05 JST gol_d_berg
  in reply to
  @thatguyoverthere @jeffcliff @roboneko @Moon @condret it’s the jeff way, and God bless him for it
  
  If he starts wearing a fuckin dress though :ree:
  
  In conversation Thursday, 04-May-2023 00:07:05 JST permalink
  
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- Jeff Cliff (jeffcliff@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 04-May-2023 00:07:10 JST Jeff Cliff
  in reply to
  i'm not 100% opposed to trying out an utilikilt
  
  i've never worn one but am open minded enough to try
  
  In conversation Thursday, 04-May-2023 00:07:10 JST permalink
  
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- Trevor Goodchild:verified::pondering_orb: (trevorgoodchild@poa.st)'s status on Thursday, 04-May-2023 00:11:39 JST Trevor Goodchild:verified::pondering_orb:
  in reply to
  @condret @thatguyoverthere @roboneko @Moon @jeffcliff >pronouns in bio
  
  Faggots don't get to have opinions on anything. Kill yourself as soon as possible. Thanks.
  In conversation Thursday, 04-May-2023 00:11:39 JST permalink
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- Jeff Cliff (jeffcliff@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 04-May-2023 00:11:39 JST Jeff Cliff
  in reply to
  I don't think you should kill yourself @condret but hopefully this gives you an idea that there are multiple, competing alternatives to MMT
  
  In conversation Thursday, 04-May-2023 00:11:39 JST permalink
  
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- gol_d_berg (gol_d_berg@poa.st)'s status on Thursday, 04-May-2023 00:30:48 JST gol_d_berg
  in reply to
  @jeffcliff @roboneko @Moon @condret @thatguyoverthere KILTS AREN'T DRESSES :ree:
  
  In conversation Thursday, 04-May-2023 00:30:48 JST permalink
  
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- condret :verified: :ancom: :radare2:<|<| (condret@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 04-May-2023 06:15:41 JST condret :verified: :ancom: :radare2:<|<|
  in reply to
  @jeffcliff @Moon @roboneko @thatguyoverthere you can believe in mmt and still go for austerity. mmt at no point advises to print money. It doesn't draw that conclusion. It is up to you what you conclude from it. You could believe in mmt and still think that deficit spending is bad per se, or you take the keynesian route and say "everything we can do, we can afford"
  
  In conversation Thursday, 04-May-2023 06:15:41 JST permalink
- Jeff Cliff (jeffcliff@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 04-May-2023 06:15:41 JST Jeff Cliff
  in reply to
  or you shut the central bank down and teach people how to replace it with decentralized, global systems
  
  > It is up to you what you conclude from it.
  
  i'm not going to conclude anything from it because I reject it. But there's a group of people who *don't* and they are increasingly mobilized, as an agregeore. And that has its own interests, and policies that are likely to erupt from it.
  
  In conversation Thursday, 04-May-2023 06:15:41 JST permalink
  
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- condret :verified: :ancom: :radare2:<|<| (condret@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 04-May-2023 06:15:42 JST condret :verified: :ancom: :radare2:<|<|
  in reply to
  @jeffcliff @roboneko @Moon @thatguyoverthere Are there? So far i haven't seen any other theory that is solely descriptive
  
  In conversation Thursday, 04-May-2023 06:15:42 JST permalink
- Jeff Cliff (jeffcliff@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 04-May-2023 06:15:42 JST Jeff Cliff
  in reply to
  MMT isn't soley descriptive - it carries with it implications, and with that policy. It is an set of operational hypotheses. And yeah: As you can see MMT has opponents on the right and the left.
  
  In conversation Thursday, 04-May-2023 06:15:42 JST permalink

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